Being a Stylist and Running a Fashion Business with Ursula Lake

spk_0:   0:00
a bit Rouge Noir-y. So something a bit dark, dark red. Hi, everyone. Welcome to The Manicure Table, Created Conversations with Me Cherrie Snow. Every episode I invite my fashion friends and creative colleagues to get their nails done with me and talk candidly about how and where their incredible journeys began. This episode is sponsored by my favourite healthy nail care, Bio Sculpture, 100% vegan and cruelty-free. For more information, visit renew beauty.co.uk. In this episode, I'm manicure and chat to my stylist friend Ursula Lake. Ursula talks about her early years as a fashion student in the nineties, right up to becoming fashion and art director at Country and Town House and fashion editor at Sunday Times Style magazine. She also tells us about launching her own luxury magazine, Make magazine with photographer Chloe Mallet and the reason she sold her hugely successful swimwear brand, Violet Lake. I just have to let you know that we had some slight sound issues because we were recording in a hotel and the cleaner started hoovering outside our room. Luckily, Ursula's voice is so brilliant and clear that it shouldn't be too much of a distraction and it's just a small part near the beginning of our chat. So hopefully you can ignore the background noise and enjoy this fascinating conversation with the truly amazing Ursula Lake. Such fun. Oh, yes, it is, isn't it? It's just a nice day. So it's a nice day. Well, you know

spk_1:   1:55
me. I don't like things to get too serious. We're No, I've always thought Although I love what I do and I take it seriously, we're not finding a cure for cancer, you know, we're taking nice pictures, so I I find it a bit. I find it a bit extra when people get a bit over the top about making it a little bit po faced and very serious and passionately for want of a better expression. You gotta have some lols, right?

spk_0:   2:21
I hate it when you go to a shoot and it's super serious and no one's talking. Yeah, it makes everyone uncomfortable, right? You're going in there. Everyone sort

spk_1:   2:30
of on each other up. And actually, I think I'm really lucky. I can't remember a shoot like that. I've had like that, so Yeah, it's quite rare. now really rare kind of living. Well, also, I think we now just work. I worked with teams of people where I'm quite familiar with everybody.

spk_0:   2:47
Yeah, you get to a stage where you kind of work with the same kind of people, and it's always nice when there's a

spk_1:   2:52
new person thrown into the mix. But then that's quite often the client or the model. So you know, that's that's not that's the newness. So I think it's quite nice on the creative side to have a team of people who already know each other and have an understanding and know that they gel. I know there are going to be kind of ego struggles or

spk_0:   3:13
yeah, I know how the others work and yeah, yeah, and trust

spk_1:   3:17
that everyone's good at their job knows what they're doing. No one's gonna

spk_0:   3:22
know. I might not swear. Yeah, he can swear I couldn't try really hard like E try my best, but I know that I'm thinking about it. Obviously, I'm going to try and behave myself. I have the because you have to cheese with lots of rating. Yeah, the rating. And I thought, Well, there's bound to be since. Well, say. But when you cheque the explicit box, it sells. Yeah, like they're gonna be like Rio or something, which I mean, we could You never know before we get to how you got into fashion. Can you just tell us a little bit about your background, your childhood, where you grow up, that kind of thing? Yeah. I grew up

spk_1:   4:14
in pizza, which is just outside. It's just outside Richmond. Okay. It's a little kind of town, I think people. Now, if people know it all, they'll know it because they might be into pizza nurseries. Posh restaurant cafe thing, which, when I grew up, was like a dodgy the nursery's. It was a proper, classic, dodgy nursery. Anyway, um, go out there. I've got two other sisters who were twins on

spk_0:   4:42
Dear Old. I remember if they were older, younger or older.

spk_1:   4:46
Significantly? Not really. But I just try and make them feel bad about it

spk_0:   4:51
on and do it again was the very different ones. A doctor One

spk_1:   4:58
is a very senior, very important doctor at Kingston Hospital based, she runs Kingston Hospital on a super important, very clever on the other one is also very clever on DH. She is a agent for classical musicians. Wow. Singers on. So,

spk_0:   5:22
yeah, we're very different. Were quite really interesting. Joe Rahl's evil God. Yeah, well, my parents are quite of quite interesting in that my father sort

spk_1:   5:34
of always had two jobs. Cesar. Hey, work for BP. It's just he's a physicist. He's got she got a doctor in mechanical engineering and he so he he worked for BP pretty much all of his career, but he also was a jazz musician on DH. Played the trombone, and that was his. That was his thing. But he was able, I think he realised quite early on that being a jazz musician in the sixties, you could see this off the end off. He was born in 1940. So I think you could see the end of the peak of, you know, just on DH. So he knew had to be, you know, practical about what he was doing. But also, I think, you know, he loves being a scientist as well, And he has that brain. Um, so yeah. So my mother, a teacher on DH, she's a teacher of she was a teacher of all different subjects, so actually quite multifaceted, both of them. So I think that's probably the reason why we haven't, you know, for him falling into one particular career path because, uh, my parents are quiet, disparate in their in their interests and what they do.

spk_0:   6:46
So there's not really any fashion kind of no Connexion at all. Not at all. I mean, my mom, my mom, is creative

spk_1:   6:54
and artistic. Um, my grandmother on my father's side studied art, um, at Slade. But

spk_0:   7:01
my mom's my mother's

spk_1:   7:04
parents, my mother and my grandmother was it was a housewife, so on. And so there wasn't a lot of sort of professional professions, sort of going on. I will not see their lives were very affected by Second World War and stuff. So

spk_0:   7:20
yeah, so they, um, they weren't kind of career e

spk_1:   7:25
people. I think my parents were the first day of their generations of their family. Have they sort of It means to be academic lives. My mother is very small. She got a scholarship to have school, so I think that I'm always going on the theory that either there was some kind of baby mix up in the hospital or that my sister's just got all the brains Because I'm definitely

spk_0:   7:50
you are Cave on a Thank you for saying that you're five later, but, I mean, we heard by the way, a speak. And, you know, you look happy stuff. Thanks, but can tell you're not like, Well, they sent me to some posh. Let me guess. It's good thing wrong with Essex. Go. Um, So, yes, it s so I grew up there. My sisters of being four years older than me. They weren't desperately interested in me. And although we went to the same school you use, he said that you weren't that close. No, I wasn't that place to my sister's until actually, in the past few years, I've got a lot place that all of my family. Yeah, it's really lovely. I'm very, very grateful for that on DH. How How does that happen? Well, bizarrely, it's come out of me how? Getting a divorce? Um, yeah. Really. Ah, I

spk_1:   8:52
was I was at times in a really bad place emotionally on DH. They really were there for me and they they were there for me emotionally. But also they were there for me, particularly sisters for me, helping me out financially, just generally being a really great support. And

spk_0:   9:10
I think I'd always felt a little bit like I was not. So maybe do you think it might have slightly been in your head that you didn't get on? Well, I think there was possibly about defence here. Anything. I don't know what you mean. I think there was a part of me that also I didn't I didn't welcome it. I didn't I didn't hand may be quite. I contributed about, um, on DH. So they didn't kind of push it or Yeah, I suppose if you do such different if you have such different lives or different job roles or whatever there was a bit about Yeah, And I think that there was, You know, when I was younger, I am clashed with one of my sister's a bit mohr. And you know, it wasn't always easy. And, um, I'm done the fun, babe, I'm gonna dio you do especially yes. What do I know what I know? I know manicure Nothing. It has to be level. It can't be like to the side. Perfectionist. Yes. Um so yeah, So I went to boarding school and I was really happy to go to boarding school. I loved boarding school on DH. I think it was good for me, actually. So you stayed away for how long? Like the hotel. So yeah, well, now I come home twice, twice or three times a term, depending. OK, on did that until I was 16. And then I came home on DH because it was clear at that point that

spk_1:   10:41
I was always gonna do something. Artie And I think my parents thought that in the school I was at was a very nice school, and I was

spk_0:   10:46
happy, but they were weren't sure that it was the best arts school. And so they sent me to a different school where I could really concentrate on art. Um, so, yeah, I did that. And then I did a foundation course after my A levels on DH. And that's what I really saw solidified the fact that I wanted to go into fashion. Although I thought I wanted to be a fashion designer. So Yeah, I did testing. I went to Ravens born college. I had this sort of slightly snobby thing in my head that I didn't want to go to ST Martin's. I thought, This isn't Martins was full of ideas on DH size based on nothing. Yeah, it was based on nothing other than I just thought that it was just It was really stupid attitude. I had to it in retrospect and I but I thought that I'll go buy also stupidly thought. But I need to need to be near to London. So I went to Ravens Bomb, which is a very good design school, but had the most miserable

spk_1:   11:47
year of my life that I really hated and didn't get on with my tutors. I worked. I was bit too diligent and the tutors, I think, wanted you to go out clubbing and not do your work and come, you know. And I was really diligent,

spk_0:   12:00
and I also was like that. Well, I was quite conscientious, and what I really realised with the creative mind, being conscientious isn't always a very good thing, because you need to go out and experience the world to get ideas and have creativity and inspiration on DH. Sitting in your room, working all night, trying to come up

spk_1:   12:20
with ideas is not the way you come out. Ideas. Yeah, You need to go out to the world and live a bit. And so I think, a lot alike. You know, there were lots of people in my year who were

spk_0:   12:30
like out dancing, partying and taking drugs and doing whatever and literally sort of doing a sketch in 10 minutes before the class. And so, you

spk_1:   12:39
know, handing it in, they would get all this attention and they'd be told that they were geniuses. And I

spk_0:   12:43
was constantly being told that I was crap, which is never good for one's ego when you're 19 or ever. So I left that place on. I went and studied somewhere else, and I studied a slightly different course, which was more base to doing magazine work, which is by that point I realised I didn't actually want to be a fashion designer because I tried making clothes and I'd always made close to my mom was a very good seam stress, and she had always encouraged me to make clothes on when I was really young, I used to make clothes for my not dulls because I always felt a bit scary. But I used to make place, huh? Had rabbits? Yeah. My life? No, Not like I did have a live eye. A white one. Call Patrick. Um, but I know I had a cuddly toy. Rabbits on DH. I made outfits for one of them in particular was my muse. If it's good, it's good. Rosie. She was pink. Very unimaginative name, but my parents came up for her. She was given to me, this one in its why was a Christmas present for my first birthday? I still have, um, anyway, so, yeah, it started in my first year of studying fashion

spk_1:   14:04
design. And I remember, like, one of the first things they make you do is make a shirt. My shirt was

spk_0:   14:10
shit. And it is just fire. That's when along bills, right? Well, you know, I realised it didn't really have the patient. I like the immediacy. That's what I actually

spk_1:   14:22
really love about what we do.

spk_0:   14:23
Love shoots because there's the immediacy of it. Yeah, you know, you know, I mean, now, obviously with digital photography, and you see that picture straight on DH and even,

spk_1:   14:37
you know, when you were even but one back in the day when we're using film. You know, you still had amazing Polaroid that gave you a really good idea of what? You know, the image was gonna look

spk_0:   14:45
like and then there was also that was always quite exciting thing about, you know, like when you were kidding. Used to take your your roll of film, to beats, to be processed. Yeah, I never had enough money to get like the one day processing. Was that to wait for the seven days? Whatever you'd be really like itching to soothe anticipation. Yeah, I mean, that it was good, but on a line of TNT climber you, Any time I realised the flash on General shared their focus, right, that some needs today. And I think he's got scrapped the type I'm grabbing. All right. I think I can do that. Um, yeah. I remember the shirt being shit. I had to make a sweater on the knitting machine. I knitted my own sweater into the sweater I was knitting so that I was actually attached to the knitting machine. That's unravel little so that I could actually get out of it. Um, yeah, I wasn't any good. I realised I was an ideas person, you know? But I didn't necessarily want to be the person practical, because I'm making closes. Its a really mathematical. I'm not mathematical it all. And it requires a lot of precision location. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm better at that now, but I've had a lot of years of knowing that I need to get better, But aged 19 it's like, No, wasn't interesting. That all. So then I realised that actually,

spk_1:   16:15
the reason why I thought I want to get into into fashion was because I was obsessed with magazines and I'd spend hours poring over the magazines and I tried to replicate the outfits that I saw in the magazines, You know, by what I had in my wardrobe or raiding my mom's wardrobe on my sister's war

spk_0:   16:30
drives. Do you know what a fascist stylist? Whoa. God, no. First thing is, if you didn't know existed, it's only quite recently that I think

spk_1:   16:41
people know what a fashion stylist ears.

spk_0:   16:43
Yeah, Andi. And it's interesting now that

spk_1:   16:46
way put used the perfect in fashion because before we used to say that. And then people like you said I was your stylist and people thought you did her.

spk_0:   16:55
Yeah, exactly. So. But I know I remember my interview

spk_1:   16:59
for the sorry College of art design where I went and did my degree that I'm saying in the interview questions, you know, which started Steve. I admire. And I remember thinking

spk_0:   17:15
what e But there was a copy

spk_1:   17:18
of Vogue in there, and I sort of quickly and a little look inside

spk_0:   17:21
this year Course cheat obs. That was pretty lucky that that was there. Yeah. Um, on DH, I think I said cake

spk_1:   17:30
feeling. Or Madeline Christie or someone like that who maybe listen to chambers or someone like that. Yeah. All people I do actually really admire. Um,

spk_0:   17:41
on DH. Yeah, that was Yeah, you're right. It wasn't the thing. It really wasn't the thing. I think I think that with the rise of the celebrity and now you know, there's a sort of celebrity stylist angle as well. But up until recently, thankful you can't hear the person hoovering outside this conversation, there's some really dirty cop out. Just come away and I cannot wait to get going. But it's like he's already begun that dirty bitch just outside the door. Well, a jury university. I'd learned how to do page design and layouts stuff like that. So that she that was the May. I kind of got into the magazine world. I did it to design because he was a hell of lot easier gang work as a designer, or even just getting some work experience a designer. Just don't cuss at a time. Okay? Cool. You can put the whole handy. Okay? Yeah, of course. That makes sense. You can debate thingy. I got, um, Yeah, I did a lot of work for Conde Nast, but

spk_1:   18:59
it wasn't all fashioned stuff. Remember? Actually going to have a meeting with the sender chambers and saying I want to become a fashion assistant? How do I go about it and bless this in dumb And I have the utmost respect for her. She's an incredible

spk_0:   19:13
stylist. But remember her sort of saying Well, you know, I started Officer P and

spk_1:   19:17
I worked my way up. I remember thinking to myself, Yeah, but that was quite a while ago, and I don't think it works like that anymore on

spk_0:   19:25
DH. But in the end, I I inherited a bit of money on DH. I

spk_1:   19:31
gave me the freedom tohave a little bit of time when I didn't need to be getting paid for work. Okay, on DH. So I decided to assist people on DH. I went and did a work placement of oak. And there I

spk_0:   19:46
met. Um, how did you get that work placement? Just I just applied for a They I think they still do

spk_1:   19:53
it. I think they still take people on a month

spk_0:   19:58
work experience. And then presumably they keep the one thing like, Well, no, because if

spk_1:   20:02
this isn't enough places for that, I mean, they probably might love to have that, but they think when I was there, I think there was maybe three or four fashion assistants working for three or four fashion editors on Now Imagine the way the magazine's air going. There's probably a lot more people who are freelance,

spk_0:   20:22
but yeah, I and I met some

spk_1:   20:24
of the girls there, and one of the girls being a fashion assistant there for a really long time was leaving on, was going to work on yes, magazine on DH. They sort of said, Oh, you know that she might need some help. So I wrote her a letter and I wrote so many letters over those years so many actors that nobody responded to, which actually, I'm a real stick before. If someone now sends me an email, you respond by response were

spk_0:   20:50
generally so funny how you always make sure you don't treat people the way you were treated kind of thing. Just just common courtesy. And these people are you know, sometimes it just you know, I hope that maybe I have,

spk_1:   21:06
you know, pointed a few people in the right direction. Teo, advance what they're doing because even if I can't help him personally, if I'm not looking for an assistant at that time or whatever, I've got some ideas about what they might be able to do if they're really into it. And quite often I just meet up with people and take them out for coffee and just say, I'll just get them, you know, two hours and my day and just go

spk_0:   21:29
so nice of you don't know anyone that does that. E. I've done it quite a lot, actually, and there's probably two

spk_1:   21:35
girls that I'm pretty end up. I've had e mails already this year from two people who I've sort of arranged her to me out with

spk_0:   21:42
because I didn't have anyone like that talk Teo on DH. Might those conversations

spk_1:   21:49
might have led me on a different path or they might have?

spk_0:   21:52
Yeah, I just might have been able to help somebody not make the same mistakes that I made because I didn't, You know, it wasn't what I was doing. Just

spk_1:   22:00
wasn't really known about it. I didn't know

spk_0:   22:03
how long the feisty give him that. You wish you had got yourself. Just that I get to try and really gauge whether interests really lie because quite often someone thinks like I did that they want to get into fashion the grammar of it. Well, even that I mean, I don't tend to meet that many

spk_1:   22:23
people who I think are just trying to do it because they look looks fun on instagram. I don't think it's even so much that anymore,

spk_0:   22:30
But I think some

spk_1:   22:30
people actually know they've studied graphic. They've studied, you know, maybe illustration and actually really, that's what they'd like to do. Or they actually really like to be interviewing people or interviewing fashion designers and they think that they need to come and work for someone like me and that isn't necessarily true. And there might be other people. They could talk to

spk_0:   22:49
you also. I try engage how it's it's not. What I do is hard

spk_1:   22:58
in any way, shape or form. I mean, it could be really time consuming and could be really long hours. It could be it could be really hard, but it's no, it's not. You know, it's No, this is not always that intellectually challenging, and I have done I try, engage, I gave weather. I think someone's actually going to be like right for it and whether they whether they are,

spk_0:   23:25
Because if someone said to me and if they're not, then you can kind of, you know I can save the world Exactly. Oh, hang on. You know, you said that You really want to do this, you know? And also I try and be really, really about the difficulties off because it can cause no intelligent into less. And Terry, were you Did you find out? Actually don't need you. The reality of it is you're doing a

spk_1:   23:48
commercial job, which I do. Fortunately, a lot off. Sometimes that means that you are in a shopping centre for two days nonstop in going into every single shop. And that isn't that much fun, you know, you know, it really isn't. It's no also that it's challenging because sometimes you know, you know, a client is looking for something very specific and you just can't find it or it's the wrong season or they haven't got the budget for it. And that could be, You know, that could be sort of demoralising. It can be tough, and it could be tough physically, you know, days when you spend, you know

spk_0:   24:27
there's other elements that make it difficult. Yeah, this budget says there's also is understanding

spk_1:   24:33
other people's taste levels on DH. You know, not every client that you worked for is going to have the same aesthetic idea ahs you have. And you know this. It's Ah, there's no right or wrong in what I'm doing is totally subjective. Yeah, you know, there's nothing mathematical about it. So, um, and sometimes I put an outfit on a model, and I think it looks great on the clients like, um, you know, or it could be a simple issue putting out for on a model. Just doesn't see the girl, you know?

spk_0:   25:11
Yeah, that's true. And you think Oh, actually, I mean, the vision I had. Yeah, totally. Which is another?

spk_1:   25:18
It's another issue. I have personally clothes that look like on me. Like Like I think

spk_0:   25:23
they look on May I think your ally. Yeah, but I've got this idea, you know, because I've sent in my mind's eye. I've

spk_1:   25:32
sort of got a model wearing it, and I'm not six. I haven't got legs up to my own. That's

spk_0:   25:37
that's just exactly how I feel. I'm like, I must remember that I'm only five. Yeah, I think I think

spk_1:   25:46
I mean, you know, I would both agree it's not very glamorous. I

spk_0:   25:50
know there's moments you have. You have 1/2 a second

spk_1:   25:53
of glamour and then you realise, actually, or just, you know, I had a very, very unglamorous job before Christmas. Did you test? It was It was just

spk_0:   26:06
I can part with most

spk_1:   26:07
things, actually, but I was so cold all day and I can't I can't. I really can't deal with outside what we were a bit. And then the location that they'd chosen didn't really have any eating. And it was really cold. It was a really cold snap before Christmas

spk_0:   26:24
And the eyes Once you get cold, you can't get wondering.

spk_1:   26:27
Can you be so cold? Scarily cold. And I had had, like, every item of clothing on that I possessed with me at that time on

spk_0:   26:38
you. Just old fashioned goes out with scythe. You know, there were jobs when I when I try, as are saying earlier, was what I said. Yeah, when I try

spk_1:   26:47
and turn up looking like I'm you know, I know what I'm doing in fashion. What? I'm particularly new Cline or new people. I think God, shut up. Like I know what I'm doing. So then I get out. You know, I've got a few kind of outfits or I'm like, Oh, this is this is fine. I can work in it. But also, I looked like I vaguely working fashion.

spk_0:   27:08
But the reality is you just want to be comfortable, but yeah. I mean, when do you have seen me looking small? I have Ah, I've seen your very own dresses. Yeah, you kind of you know, Emily and I do like address is easy

spk_1:   27:25
in the summer. There isn't yet a dress that's easy.

spk_0:   27:35
You done a job that has really kind of catapulted e into Soldem started? Yeah, because I've had it. I've done a shape before. I really

spk_1:   27:46
I thought, God, I don't I don't know why I'm doing this. It's like a new magazine, like, never heard of it for Don't know the team blah, blah, blah. But

spk_0:   27:53
then it turned out that I've got so much work from it, and I've worked with the photographer loads and, well, you always have to keep a very open mind. And I think it's not

spk_1:   28:03
actually a bad way to be in life that you don't know where. You know. I'm not that you know when When you're starting out. I'm sure you did it as well. He did loads and loads and loads of things for free because you don't know where something might take you two.

spk_0:   28:19
Yeah, and then you get more selective.

spk_1:   28:21
Yeah, And then you realise that actually, I don't need to be doing that anymore because I built up a reputation. I've got a portfolio. It's okay.

spk_0:   28:30
Yeah, but I think a bit of

spk_1:   28:33
that Still, it's sometimes quite good because it's it's sometimes those things that make you like it's really good. You know what we were saying earlier about the fact that we've worked together quite a lot, which is a lovely thing, but actually, sometimes working with somebody don't know he's quite good Because it takes you out of your comfort zone. Yeah. And, you know, you kind of

spk_0:   28:51
eyes you can't you know? I know,

spk_1:   28:54
like safe When we when we worked with Matthew. Yeah. There's a zone understanding because we've worked together a lot. That if I maybe I'm not as amazing as I was last time, they'll probably forgive me.

spk_0:   29:07
E might. They just might. You know, I don't have a day off. Yeah, you're going to get away with it. Where is when you when you wouldn't Someone new,

spk_1:   29:16
You know, it's like you got to be on your a game. Yeah. Um, so

spk_0:   29:21
But also, what I like about working with people have already worked with is you have an understanding of timings. Yeah, as well, I think, and especially working with Matthew, we will understand each other's timings and how that things do take time if you want to get it. Radio, radio, whereas you kick out on a ship and they'll be like to make right, we won't. Then I was changed. Every look, it's like that's not possible. No, there's not enough time. Yeah, you know. So if they want that, they have to understand that, appreciate

spk_1:   29:52
and not be, like, hovering over you going once going down with me, done things

spk_0:   29:57
that were never like we worked together. It feels like nothing's like frantic or anything, you know? Well, I can't pay me normally. Normally you've got it.

spk_1:   30:11
You've got to shoot concept. Worked out enough in your mind that you there aren't gonna be that you hope to many here. Cops. Yeah. I mean, the biggest problem. We often have this because we're doing a lot of things with jewellery. Is that the jury? The fine, stupid, expensive jewellery needs to go back to its safe. Oh, yeah. So we're running against time. Aren't we often? Yeah. And so that means the start, you know, got past all the guards get bit huffy someone you know,

spk_0:   30:39
but going back to what you're saying before about a big break moment, I was very lucky that when I was working for

spk_1:   30:48
US magazine, I met a photographer called Timber Day, who is a lovely, lovely man on DH. He was doing really amazing work. And I was a big, fat nobody with not that much experience on my own I'd started. I done two years of assisting on, and then I decided that I was ready.

spk_0:   31:09
Who did you assist? Um, Carlin. Sitcom.

spk_1:   31:14
He This is on US magazine. And then she was also doing, like Greek Vogue, Russian Vogue, Conde Nast traveller. It's about that. So I did some really good travelling with her a lot. A lot from her. It was tough. It was tough, but it was I learned a lot. Yeah, I've got a lot of respect for her. Um, on DH tonight, I went out on my own. I was very gratified that when I left her, she replaced me with two assistance to do my job.

spk_0:   31:43
She needs to now. Well, you know, I was doing a lot. Yeah, I was doing a

spk_1:   31:48
hell of lot. Was working really long hours, and it was tough. Um, but I learned a hell of a lot, but yeah, I met him and Tim and I got on really well on DH. He just obviously saw something in me. I thought that I could do it, and he recommended me to a lot of clients when I didn't have an agent on that helped me to get an agent, so he he and he would put me up for these big, big jobs. So, you know, one the biggest. Probably still some of the biggest ad jobs I've done was doing the advertising campaigns for Harvey Nichols, which were really I have a lot going on in them, and they become quite quite sort of iconic images, actually, because

spk_0:   32:29
he is sort of collage effects. And they were They were really, really

spk_1:   32:35
long days with a lot ofthe outfits to prep lots of models, loads of her makeup going on. It was it was a thing. Um,

spk_0:   32:44
I think in your job, you have to pay super organised and yeah, we have to be really

spk_1:   32:50
on it with a ll the fashion people. You got it. You know, you've got you've got It's very important to build up our important strong connexions with all the Pee ers on DH. But one thing I always say to assistance I have now because I think quite often younger people are not so good about having proper personal relationships with people. They just do everything by email. And if you ask him to pick up the phone, they're horrified that I wished. I say they're horrified and it's like It's fine. You just saying exactly what you're gonna be staying in the e mail. You're just using words

spk_0:   33:29
Come out of your mouth using your voice for you, boy, this rather than your fingers. Other than that, it's exactly the same. But without those in personal relationships, you know, because those when I started

spk_1:   33:41
off, I was faxing three requests. Yes, they're relaxing. Lots of people don't even know what a fax is

spk_0:   33:51
so retro retro. But yeah, I was faxing, and then I'd have

spk_1:   33:55
to chase him up with phone calls and I'd speak to these p ours and I speak to them quite often. You know, we were really busy doing a lot of shoots. I'd speak to these peers a law, you know. I knew where they were going on holiday. I knew the names of their kids. I knew them. Although sometimes if they were based in Milan, I never met them. Like, actually had a very funny thing that I used to speak to dodging Cabana all the time. You know, to women No dull Chang Gabbana. But okay, Yeah, on DH there called Stefania and Barbara on DH. I, you know, I knew with a holiday Did you know? I know when they had gone out for dinner the night before and they drank too many, you know, whatever, but on. But yeah, I didn't know if they'd walked into the room, I wouldn't know they were. And then about probably about 10 years ago, they met them in London. And it was this really kind of moment where

spk_0:   34:48
they were like are also LA And I was like, the fact he was like a really, like, funny, kind of like, I have no new for years, But but and did they look how you imagine no so different? That's funny, but I think it's a very important part of because these people are entrusting me with clothes that cost thousands of pounds, and they're quite often one offs. Have you ever had any disasters? You know, what? When I was an

spk_1:   35:16
assistant, we're in Mexico in this really amazing resort. On the model was Carlina Kurkova, and it was all very fabulous on DH. I lost one Manolo. Oh God. But this is a good storey, actually. So the I now think that the Manolo, the one Manolo was stolen

spk_0:   35:43
Well okay, Better listen to the storey bear with So we So there was a heart We will staying in these It was a really beautiful, very kind of remote

spk_1:   35:55
resorts where there were no locks on the doors. It was

spk_0:   36:01
kind of like a

spk_1:   36:02
Nico resort, but this is like this is like 15 years ago, maybe longer on DH. Everyone had separate rooms. I was sharing a room with Caroline, my boss for hair and makeup. We're in together. The model was arraigned round, blob of culpable

spk_0:   36:17
on DH throughout the week that we were there, people kept on sort of saying If you did, I leave such and such in here. But we realise it really wasn't so

spk_1:   36:27
much such and such. It was quite specific what they were losing, which was basically underwear on DH. Knickers and bikini bottoms were disappearing and I've got. Well, I've got some reasonably interesting underwear now, but

spk_0:   36:41
back then it was really boring. It

spk_1:   36:43
was like, you know, a black G string, whatever. It wasn't very exciting, and I wasn't particularly noticing

spk_0:   36:48
more exciting than e, you know? I mean, it wasn't like I had a leopard print, whatever

spk_1:   36:53
with the pink ribbon or whatever. They just work. And where is that leopard print one. You know,

spk_0:   36:57
they were there all black, generic, whatever. But the other girls had slightly more interesting because they were like, but my blue spotty ones are missing on DH. Remember?

spk_1:   37:08
Became one of the models for her bikini bottoms, disappeared a lot, and

spk_0:   37:12
we're all kind of it was a bit weird. I'm Caroline, and I think Caroline probably boring underweighting. Maybe it's a side of things I don't know, but she she hadn't noticed anything going missing either. And then on the last day they found and then my one minute ago is my thing. And then on the last day stuff behind an air conditioning unit, apparently they found this massive bag of underwear and it'll it'll be in washed. It was all clean and remember them just emptying

spk_1:   37:48
out onto my bed and all of the girls being around the bed and we were all looking at it and

spk_0:   37:55
they were like, Ah, there's my blue spotty knickers. Whatever. Now there's my bikini bottoms or whatever and there. Sure enough, there were knickers that were for Caroline's in mind, but we just hadn't noticed. Come on, DH, There was a nick, a thief. That's so so I think you're Nick a

spk_1:   38:12
thief. You might be a solo man alone. I have it. I have a real fear of losing jewellery because obviously that's that's a bit because you worked with a lot off.

spk_0:   38:26
I'm less worried

spk_1:   38:27
about that jewellery. To be honest, I'm

spk_0:   38:29
more worried about because at least there's a God. There's a guard down my responsibility, Okay?

spk_1:   38:34
I mean, if you know what I'm like, I'm always trying it on, and I'm always making messing around with stuff. Attention is yours Fine, taking stupid pitches, holding banana whilst wearing a £3 million ring. Um,

spk_0:   38:48
you know, But they went so when it's really

spk_1:   38:52
expensive, I don't really worry, but when it's the kind of the stuff that's like £1000 they've given it to me on for me to look after on I'm responsible for. Maybe it's something really tiny or little or delicate. Yeah, that's then you get it. This's the one time that a bit of nepotism worked in my favour on a girl that I went to school with. He was actually in the year below me. Alice Bruno Bruce, who is still works the country in Townhouse. She suggested me to the editor, Li Si. Listen, I went and had lunch on DH. We go on and she offered me the job on the spot is that easy is up Very easy, but that was that was through the old girl's network. But it's the only time I think I've. I've always had a bit of a thing about wanting Tio, you know, I like working in a meritocracy. I really I don't I don't like it when I feel I think people are just getting a job because they know the right people. I think it's really important that people get work because they're good at what I do. Yeah, really annoys may so, but I guess I did get lucky on that one. This lease is a really lovely person to work for,

spk_0:   40:17
but it turns out you're pretty good anyway. And it was nice because I have never

spk_1:   40:23
lost that contact with some country town has magazine, and I still do stuff then. But I do mostly the jury stuff them

spk_0:   40:30
and then your own magazine. So my own magazine, I've been very lucky in my career that I've done lots of things

spk_1:   40:36
have led on to other things. So I ended up doing a bit of work for Net a porter for their their online magazine. And that was the first experience I had with doing anything digital on. Then I worked for two years for a digital luxury magazine, could never and addressed Andi. I would did the launch of that and then until it actually got foreclosed about two and 1/2 years later. Um and we were just a bit of a head of all time. We were a bit ahead of the curve on that, but it was doing well. But

spk_0:   41:10
you saying that if you'd have held on today No, it wasn't. My recipe wasn't my magazine, so I So

spk_1:   41:16
it wasn't my responsibility. Told until it was part of short list media who own stylist and stuff like that. Yeah, if I'm being really honest, which I don't Carol, well, I can't be realised. OK, I think they threw the magazine under a bus. I think that they were because six months later they sold the whole of the company to an investor on DH. I think that the investor that they chose wouldn't have really understood a luxury digital magazine. And I think that they probably had to get rid of what we were doing in order to get the sail through. And I think that the I think the owners, that's why I think I mean, I don't know that I'm categorically correct, but that's my that's my theory ing your ruling.

spk_0:   42:03
But anyway, you know what? It was a good learning process.

spk_1:   42:06
I worked with some truly brilliant people off who I'm still kind of in contact with and still work with a lot of them. Some amazing people like Harriet Walker, who works the times. I mean, he's a genius. He's just written a Burke, which I think she's probably now sold of TV. I mean the film rights to me. She's in there She's brilliant. She's a really, really clever girl. My ads to Carrie who? Who I actually did some work for recently. You now works for Revolution Beauty s.

spk_0:   42:37
So there's some really great

spk_1:   42:38
people, some really clever people who I work with. So I was very glad of that experience. And then it helped me when I was going to launch my own magazine because I'd sort of

spk_0:   42:47
why John in form. How did you decide? Teo, launch Maxine. So it came about

spk_1:   42:54
from a photographer, Chloe Mallet. That is a friend of mine who had worked with all of my career. Really? And she had this idea about doing a digital magazine on DH. It came at the right time for me. I was looking for a new project on DH.

spk_0:   43:10
It's really beautiful, Maxine. I love it. Thank you very much. Always. Well, you know what? We've Maroni

spk_1:   43:17
as good as the people who contribute. And I'm very lucky that I'm now at this age where I know a lot of people and it's very gratifying works.

spk_0:   43:25
Yeah, we've gone back to quite

spk_1:   43:27
a sort of a tried and tested ethos of magazines in the way that things Look, we're trying to base Keep put a print magazine into digital format on DH. People seem to really like it on DH. It's very gratifying that pretty much every single person that I have approached to us to do things have all been wanting to do it on. You know, it's a lot off their own time and money and effort.

spk_0:   43:54
Can we just talk about Violet Light? Yeah, because she had a swimwear company, had a coward and come about on DH. Why did you send it? So I started Violet, like

spk_1:   44:03
in 2000 and 10 on. It was I

spk_0:   44:08
was in a Jacuzzi in India. I couldn't sleep. I had jet lag on. Well, it comes from actually,

spk_1:   44:18
I don't know if you've noticed this, but I've got quite large boobs.

spk_0:   44:22
Hands, huh? Yeah, everyone's babes. A large of the mind. I wish I could syphon some off. Really do. Really? I actually noticed that. Well, there was that there big enough and yet, but But they used

spk_1:   44:40
to be bigger and that she had made smaller, but I had dummy had reduction surgery.

spk_0:   44:45
I was too sick of the fact that I didn't feel I thought that basically swimwear

spk_1:   44:50
was wasn't being sold in the right way. I thought it was bizarre that you could go and buy a new underwear, sir, to go buy bra and knickers. And you bought them separately because you're buying them to fit you perfectly. But yet you couldn't really do the same thing in somewhere. I mean, you can now. But back in nearly 10 years ago, you, Why is 10 years ago? 10 years. This year, you couldn't really do that. I have heard storeys of people going and buying two bikinis in order to get the sizing right, which is just ridiculous.

spk_0:   45:22
It's such a simple thing, isn't it? Why didn't I think of that in the first place? Yeah, and so my my concept was kind of like, Remember the sock shop? Yes. So the sock shop was sort of vaguely my mind

spk_1:   45:33
because I just thought I loved the fact that, you know, it was socks, but there were loads of colours and prints or whatever, and it was just like a one stop shop. And I had that idea that I wanted it to be something that was practical. And so I started off, set up with four styles of bikini tops with four styles of bikini bottoms, and I did them in eight different colours and they were all on four different sizes. So

spk_0:   45:55
how did you know what to do? Where to begin? I guess I felt like bikinis or not. You're not

spk_1:   46:04
reinventing the wheel. There's like, you know, you've got you've got a area in your book of your body that you need to cover And there's not that many different ways of doing it on DSO. I and I also wanted to do something. It was really classic. Yeah, I love that. I love the brand areas, which is like super stylish, simple French with really good quality fabrics and lovely colours. And I sort of wanted to do something that was a bit more accessible version of that because you know areas is park Chanel. It's horribly expensive. And so I wanted to do something that was a bit like that, but sound slightly sort of, you know, yeah, more affordable. So

spk_0:   46:43
and I also I wanted to make it. I wanted to make swimwear, buying

spk_1:   46:47
a bit more democratic and easier for women. I wanted I just wanted it to be an easier way on. DH. I suppose it sounds a bit cheesy, but it was that sort of level of sort of empowering people because it

spk_0:   46:59
says naked as you're going to be in public. And I didn't I never

spk_1:   47:03
thought this was gonna happen as a result off having a brand. But the amount of feedback I got from really grateful customers saying, you know, I've never really felt that grate on the beach. This is giving me so much confidence, you know, loving the designs, loving the fabric quality, knowing that it lasted really well. Just I was so gratified by people actually taking the time to

spk_0:   47:30
write me emails like really long

spk_1:   47:32
emails to say thank you for something. So

spk_0:   47:35
they clearly

spk_1:   47:36
wass a gap in the market that that I was, you know, fulfilling a need. Andi

spk_0:   47:42
thought really lovely,

spk_1:   47:43
and it was a really fascinating process to do it, because I did. We did everything we tried to make it mean. We were very lucky. Um, in that we had a lot of because I've bean pr to for so many years I knew how to PR Yeah, on DH so I knew how to get the brand out there. I knew how to get it into magazines. What? We had a few really lucky things at the beginning, and we got the attention of net support. So we got the attention and basically within about

spk_0:   48:12
within six

spk_1:   48:13
months off us. Way went live in May 2010 on By December that year, we had a massive order from Net A porter on. We were stocked already in Harvey Nichols on DH. Then by that. And then I think you also had an order from Selfridges. And then then there was Harrods came along and Fan X and you know it. It went really very quickly on DH.

spk_0:   48:41
It was a great

spk_1:   48:42
It was a really great roller case doing also at the same time I was continuing my job, so I was still working as a fashion editor. At that point, I was fashion editor of Stella magazine, so I was still doing that. So I was still doing 20 shoots for them a year.

spk_0:   48:56
You're one of the people that just works constantly, like you've always got your fingering those

spk_1:   49:02
different pies, and I think it's just having a bit of a grasshopper brain. You just want to get bored quite easily. I think that's what it is. And so I need my brain to be kind of

spk_0:   49:11
I think that I'm not in the moment.

spk_1:   49:13
I feel like I'm not that busy. So I sold violent lake in 2018 so it had eight headed for eight years. I felt like I had taken it to where I could take him on DH. My divorce had happened on DH the year before. Andi. I'd sort of done a lot off of the business with my ex husband, and I felt like I just needed a bit of a fresh slate. And yeah, it's something to do something new and the opportunity to sell it. Get over. Those arose, and I just thought, Yeah, I'll take it, um, and it was great, because in and they want me to do, you know, other things. And I realised that I had I had done I had done. I'd taken a business, I'd start, I started the business. I've done everything from scratch. I learned all about that. I had taken it to a really quite high level of success. I had celebrities like Gwyneth Paltrow in Libya Palermo and put out that wearing it. I had, you know, I've bean in Vogue Bean. I had achieved a lot of what I want to achieve with that sword in your hand was fine. Let

spk_0:   50:18
it go. I was painful. It was really painful of the day that I sold it. But at the same time, you knew you I knew was like, This is the right buddy. But it's, you know,

spk_1:   50:29
sometimes you gotta rip off the plaster and it's a bit uncomfortable, but, you know, it's the right thing, so you just have to do it. Andi, I knew it was gonna be like a bit of a new chapter in it. I didn't know what I was gonna do next, but I knew that there would be something I already had started make. So make make magazine was still going on. That was getting a bit of traction. So that was fine. I was still doing lots of other things. Um, on. Then I just And then it wasn't that long ago that I decided tow, retrain as a chef,

spk_0:   51:02
e a z do, which is why my hands remember mistakes. I've been shuffling, but yes, I know. I'm a qualified, natural, perfect vegan chef. I think what's really good about

spk_1:   51:13
doing your own business is a fact that I've now started to business. And I've been involved with the start up of three businesses this week. I made a website for my chuffing things.

spk_0:   51:24
So what? Where do you plan to take that? Retreats mostly. Okay. Yeah. When I was a kind of starts to get, I'd always I've always practise you go practise your

spk_1:   51:34
quite long time, although I'm really quite rubbish at it. But that's not

spk_0:   51:40
that's not the point. I know We have

spk_1:   51:41
to keep on saying there. Although my ego would really actually like me to be better at. However, I was never that

spk_0:   51:48
deal. You start quiet later in life, I guess also, I

spk_1:   51:52
was never I was never the person doing gymnastics at school, you know, like barely doing forward throng.

spk_0:   51:57
He so in a way, you're late style, So yeah, like I've never I've never done a cartwheel. I don't mind telling you. I've never known car, but I've never done a hand. See, I never quite flexible because I didn't imagine that I did gymnastic because you want

spk_1:   52:12
a little tight, little small package

spk_0:   52:14
if you like. Yeah, I really like I kind of I know I started to I suppose I've been doing a lot of yoga for about for six years. And then

spk_1:   52:26
when I was going through a lot of emotional stuff, I felt it. I found it a real solace on DH. I was one studio that I'd go to you. I mean, I went every day on I felt like, you know, the world might have offended if I hadn't gone every day. Yeah,

spk_0:   52:41
sure like, yeah, it was sometimes. Yeah, Sometimes I was also, Sometimes it

spk_1:   52:45
was a really lonely, you know, I was on my own and I didn't have I'm living on my own And sometimes it might be the only person that I knew If I went and interacted and did the class, that was those people that I was, you know, having a laugh.

spk_0:   52:57
I feel that you're quite a sociable person for May. Probably the opposite. I love my own company, and I'm really good mining company. But I know that if I go too long Yeah. Listen,

spk_1:   53:10
I mean, I'm quite gone beyond

spk_0:   53:12
e Shut me up. Yeah, yeah, you got That's saying there's lots of interesting saying but yes, I have a long storey

spk_1:   53:23
short. I've become friends with a lot of yoga teachers, and so it's that felt like a natural progression. Teo.

spk_0:   53:29
I still feel that doing

spk_1:   53:31
food is very, very creative. And it's, you know, it's about its sort of transferring very similar skills, but just putting it into something that is a bit more nurturing than sometimes what we do in fashion on guy quite love Like, you know, I also think that I don't know, you know, living on my own. I don't have anyone to look after anymore. I've got a cat. It's not really the

spk_0:   53:56
same once the cops somebody. So it's quite nice toe. Have you have that that release on DH? And also I like I like learning, So it's nice having a

spk_1:   54:08
new thing to learn. So when I studied, I was learning about a lot about nutrition as well and all of that side of it. It's really fascinating. Do

spk_0:   54:15
you see yourself leave in the fashion industry? I don't know. Always, always having your time in it somewhere, I think probably

spk_1:   54:23
always under my tone It somewhere

spk_0:   54:26
because I do genuinely love it on DH. I Lot of people say to me, I'm not gonna do this forever. I'm not going to let you know when I'm gonna shoots and things. There is a part of me that worries

spk_1:   54:37
about my longevity and worries about how relevant I am as I get older. Yeah, on whether you know, the young whipper snappers are more relevant than me. But then I know that I've got experience and I know I've got knowledge, and I know that in a crisis or a drama, I know how to sort out.

spk_0:   54:52
I think there's pros and cons. Teo the Ages off over creative. You know, you've obviously got that kind of experience for a young person. On the one side, they could be like fresh ideas, but then they don't have the experience and all the contacts, although, you know, so I just think it works both ways and sometimes it you

spk_1:   55:16
know, that I've got a lot off sort of historical knowledge about fashion just because I was always interested in it. So when I studied I wants to know about. Yeah, about kind of.

spk_0:   55:28
You're kind of knowledge guys. A bit deeper than I Maybe. I mean, but I think I think that that could be useful if references. Yes, exactly.

spk_1:   55:37
All that kind of stuff. I understand all of that really well,

spk_0:   55:40
right? I mean, I really enjoy

spk_1:   55:42
the people I worked with on DH. I've realised also that there, you know that I've got a lot of really good friends in the industry on going to work is often a really good love.

spk_0:   55:55
So it's not magic. It's really no. I mean, yeah. Sometimes it's you're in a freezing

spk_1:   56:01
cold studio and you on the catering is dreadful again, which is first, very first. Well, problems that face

spk_0:   56:12
my nails look amazing. I mean, really amazing. I really like this. Great finishes. Very shiny. Very. Oh, my God, They're shiny. The wonderful light you can see us is amazing work at personal eight dot com. Don't forget to cheque out her beautiful magazine that make magazine dot co dot UK. You can also follow her on Instagram at Ursula Underscore lake and also at Make magazine UK. It's all in the show tonight. Thanks a lot. You were brilliant away. If you enjoyed listening to the manicure table, Created conversations with me Cherry snow. Anyone here from more creative than

spk_1:   56:57
subscribe to the podcast and follow us on instagram at the manicure table. If you have any feedback or you just want to get in touch, you can contact me either on Instagram at Terry Snow or you can email manicure at cherry smoke dot com. I'd love to hear from you. Thanks for listening.