How to Become a Music Photographer with Jennifer McCord

spk_0:   0:00
God like dark reds.

spk_1:   0:02
Please, everyone, welcome to the manicure tables. Creative conversations with military side. Every episode I invite my fashion frames in creative colleagues to get the nose down with me until candidly about how and where their incredible journey began. This episode is sponsored by my favourite Healthy now care bio sculpture, 100% beacon on quality free. For more information, visit the new pc dot co dot UK in this final episode of the first Siri's I'm Medicare and Cheque to Music for Topper Jennifer McCord. We discuss the challenges as a young female photographer in the music industry, the differences between fashion and music on why it's important to photograph everything. Jenny talks about Taurean with singer songwriter Ellie Golden and reveals the famous pop band she's recently being torn. Plus, she shares the cameras and kitsch uses to capture those magic moments in music. It's the hugely talented Jennifer McCord. Many thanks so much for coming

spk_0:   1:25
on this programme are having me way. Haven't met. This is the first time we've met, so it's an absolute pleasure to meet you, and I'm really I can't wait to hear about the music industry because There's something that is completely need to make. I'm not in it at all. I'm so I'm really intrigued. But first, can you just tell us a bit about your background, Your childhood? Yeah. So I was originally born in Germany. We meet Esther. Do you speak German? I yes. You know as well as we should. Um so are your parents. Germinal. My mom's German on. My dad is Irish. I thought he lived in Germany for 20 years, so Yeah, he moved over here. I have sort of live on the outskirts of London and have always lived vaguely in the same area since we moved on. Yeah, I start shooting. I don't really know. When I when I picked up a camera for the first time, I always was that kid in school who, when you gave some disposable camera to school trips. Yeah. Take all the folks before we went on the trip. Just couldn't wait. Yeah, I really wanted to take ways of everything, but it didn't really click for me that that could be a career. I think just a little Yeah, You just loved it. And yeah, and I wanted to be a writer for a really long time. I think if I wasn't doing this, I'd probably be be doing that. But yeah, when I was about 16 I was like, Wait, people do. This is a job you can get paid to just take photos, right. Cool. That's that's what I'll do that. Yeah. Everyone say it's like they didn't even know it was the job. I mean, because you don't really hear about it in school. These kind of creative jobs. Yeah, I think. Yeah. I also went to a very academic school. So, um, like you, you want to Or photography like that wasn't a Jesus e or an a level you could do the closest they had was you could do like an art. Jesus. See that? It's just So so then what was it that gave you the idea off a music photographer? Um, I think it was actually when I when I shot music for the first time I was at this point, I'd sort of been like, Yeah, I'm really I'm really into talk for anything. This might be something that I want to do. You on? I met this woman who was involved in running a charity called Wembley to Sweater, which basically taught underprivileged kids of talk. If it started Soweto and then it moved over to the UK on. I met her at an exhibition for some of the work that I was there with some people from college and we got chatting and she was like, Oh, well, what do you want to just come? Shi'ar event. We need a photographer. And then when they were teaching a course, she was the truck for teaching. The course needs an assistant. Someone just carry his bags. It wouldn't be like, really glamorous or anything, but would you want to do it? That's where you observe. Yeah, you get to observe. Yeah, it was It was a really great experience on Guy actually got to shoot a lot as well. While I was helping out on DH, it was the year that we had the Olympics. So 2012 on DH, the course was based around. That was a lot of sports trophy. That's that's kind of the thing they collaborate with, like a lot of sports teams, mainly footballs and Arsenal and Chelsea. But we also got to shoot at the the torch arrival ceremony at Hyde Park occurred. There was like a big concert like wanted played and remember, sheeting getting sheet. That and being like this great, this is, I think, Tonto like capturing that energy. Yeah, I've always loved music. I've always gone to show, isn't it? I'd even might taken photos that shows on a little point, she, but never. It has never been something that I really thought that you could do on. I think it's because I wasn't seeing work like, interested me. I think a lot of the photos that got printed in like newspapers from concerts and things. When you know I found a couple of other structures online. There was a guy called Adam Melnick IAS who still still have time for today. He's great on DH. He was shooting like tall photography on DH. She didn't leave behind the scenes moments of bands that felt really intimate and special. And I got this. I think this is it. This is what I want to do. It gets everything that I'm really into, like the emotion. That's one thing I love about your work. When I left on your instagram it it just really captures the raw emotion. And I just think that's really important in a in an image. Thank you. It means a lot that I try and do it. You know, I don't know what my hit round that is. Uh, that's always the pretty high

spk_1:   6:14
on. Very quickly and very oddly

spk_0:   6:17
at this. This light doesn't happen. I think anymore. Because with the rise of instagram, everyone suddenly realise that you could be a tool photographer. Um, yeah, backing, but when? Yeah, yeah, which was only six years ago now, but the internet's changed so much in that time, But it's not like an old woman being changed. Oh, my dear listeners, she's only 24. Yeah, Band followed me on Twitter on. I was like, you know what? Were there unknown band or No. Well, at the time, I was really into heavy music and say they had a big pipe. They were from the US and they were doing their first UK tool. Um, Andi, I just emailed them. Presumably your instagram fade. I didn't haven't screaming. Oh, you didn't even hurt. Okay, Service. I had a flicker account. Mohsen photos. Yeah, I Yeah, I had a flicker. Yeah, it was a brief kind of student, wasn't it? Yeah. People still use it. Yeah, because it's a free way of displaying photos and things like that. And still community. They used a huge community around it, but they let me on. Tricia and I message them. I was like, Hi. Uh, would you maybe be interesting having 12 talk fast on DH? Um, the guitarist message back was like, Oh, yeah. Like, send us an email. Says something's really, really formal. Email was like, Hi. Thanks for your time. Like this is like what I've done before on DH, which was, like, crazy memories. I'd seen some of your Yeah, they I sent him a link to my my flicker and was like, Jesus and photos I've taken of a cake. But I went Teo on DH, you know, some friends and things on DH. Then they were like, Yeah, we we like to work. We'd love you to come on tour, So yes, I went on tour for nine days and we were travelling in a van. Some him sleeping in the van. So you and you Are you always taking pictures? Yeah. Now is it varies not just like one stage, but yeah, all the time. It varies now. Some artists won't do too much during the day or they don't want to be shot during the day as much. Okay, so I have to Kind of Yes. So I have more of a set time. But other bands, it sort of whenever they're around, whenever we do things together, I have a camera on. Was she eating? Uh, it's also kind of hard, professor it because I think he got some of the best images when you will. When everything's candid and you can't build a relationship with people, that's the That must be the most interesting thing. Just capture in those moments. Do they have to approve? Yeah. Yeah, most the time. Now it's guest, sort of. So much of the fashion industry your client would approve the images that get released. It doesn't often happen that people don't approve images, but I tend to always cheque before I play something for You know, some people have different usage. Sometimes people wouldn't want you to pace things. They want to save it for a photo book or, you know, for long term use so they don't want being out on the Internet. I did it all with with an artist last year where I basically can't publish anything because it's all sort of being held on to for long term use, which will be exciting when it's out. So he's going going to be released. But we have. So, yeah, I wish you never know. But I mean, yeah, I think they for them, they were quite large fan base and found base is quite into buying memorabilia. And you say he's a bandit? Yeah, it was. It was West life, though. Is this weather? Currently, I'm working a lot with Ellie Golding. We haven't done much touring recently. It's been a lot of one of shows. She is out of album cycle at the moment. Which means What does that mean? She hasn't been now. Oh, she's not currently talking about that because you know you will do a tour to promote an album. Normally, I like some sort of release. And so she hasn't been out on DH, so it's a waiting on that, um, I just been should hall a couple of months ago with a banquet half mean run you. I've worked with quite extensively of the last few years on they just putting our mountain. It's it's great if anyone's listening should go listen to them because they're wonderful. What kind of music? I guess, to put it really plainly. It's indie rock that it's it's amazing. They're incredibly musicians. It's for peace and 84 part harmonies on things, and they will play like four different instruments, sometimes at the same time. And then they swap instruments, hoppy free songs. It's It's incredible. It must be good when you're when you're actually into the music as well. Yeah, definitely helps. And I do think, though, that when you get to know people and when you're watching them every every night and you're so seeing thie artistry behind you, do you? Do you, I guess, tend to open up the music. Mohr. Even if it's not what you were typically typically listen to. What is your creative process when you're I guess it depends were touring. It's You're very much in a documentarian mode. Yeah, so you're just reacting to things as they happen. He must be always on the kind of Yeah, I think a stroke feel sort of like that. Anyway, you'll be walking around so you know, like, Oh, that light is great. I wish that my camera on me do you take cover? E takes it. It's heavy, but I just got a small little 35 film cameras. I'm going to try and start taking it with me everywhere. Yeah, I think it. I think it'll make me a better photographer, but yeah, but with things like Portrait, it's there's been more creative process sometimes. So you do studio? Yeah, I worked a Yeah, I do basically everything that would sort of come under music, So that could be just like a live gig. Could be touring pressure album artwork on this summit. Behind the scenes on music videos. Yeah, basically anything that comes under there. You do video to duty Video?

spk_1:   12:36
Yeah, everyone talked to you about also is

spk_0:   12:47
being women in the photography just industry or even in the music industry. Um, what your thoughts on that, like what? Your experiences and it's It's changing a lot, and I think it's it's still changing, hopefully for the better. But, um, it's still a very male dominated industry. There are a lot of women who were doing incredible things. And I don't think that they're getting half the visibility that men get for doing so. You do face challenges in that respect. Yeah, I definitely I think so. How do you kind of overcome? Or do you feel like you have to prove yourself more? I feel like I'm us to prove myself more. Let's put it like that. A lot of people, sometimes when I come onto a sheet, we'll just assume that I'm like a stupid little girl and don't really know what I'm doing. I've had I've had a male assistant before and people would talk to the male assistant like they may have talked for an hour. I'm running this. Talk to me. Yeah, basically, that is interesting. Yeah, and it's so they just like prejudge. Yeah, Andi, which is crazy because you're also like you behind me. You've seen the work and you're paying me. So why are we Why are we doing this? Oh, God, that is crazy. I mean, I have the same situation because I'm small. I was getting younger looking. Yeah, Andi. So sometimes if I've had an assistant that's tall, are or maybe looks older. However, they they just assumed that on the assistant. Yeah, but yeah, it is true. And actually, in some respects, I think, I mean, it's much better now that I'm older because I'm just, like, you know, you're less of a fuck. Yeah, It is a place where you can see, actually, Yeah, but that's exactly it. You just care less. Yeah, but definitely in the beginning on, actually, I wouldn't say I've stopped completely caring about it, because sometimes it does. You do feel a bit awkward about it, but but yeah, I do think it like it held me back a bit because it kind of makes you withdraw a bit. I don't know how you felt. No, I get that. I think still some homes, if I'm if I'm going into a sheet, that's that's big and has a lot of people in the room. Um, I know that I need to be quite dominant. And I don't think that's the thing. You've got to command the set. Yeah, absolutely. And I think I'm sort of like an extra battered Internet, uh, intervention X for a wife of a way around. That works. I can meet me Very good with people. And very very on and very funny on DH. Do you really need to do? But it takes a lot out of me. Yeah. And some days, you know, you just need to give yourself a pep talk before you walk in the room. We were like, Okay, I'm here because I'm really good at what I do. Sounds really deserved it. Just like, you know, for you, Captain, you have to kind of remind yourself. Yeah, I can do this. And I do have the capability and deal with the sort of impostor syndrome which I always used to think that I didn't get. And then I realised there's certain things I did when I was like, Oh, no, it's just because I don't think I'm good night. Most em creatives. I've spoken, Tio. They all talk about that impostor syndrome, but, you know, and it has made me realise well, we're all the same way. All kind of have our kind of insecurities and worries and think What am I good enough for? Yeah, whatever. It is just so subjective. I think I am. I gotto she she inquired before Christmas last year and they bring me and it's from magazine. That doesn't really do. They do a lot of rap music, and that's not a world that I am really in. It's well that I think is amazing on DH. Would love to shoot more of that. It's definitely definitely not my world at the moment on DH. Yeah, they asked me a sheet for them and we found on the phone and in my head I was like, You sure you got the right person? You sure you got the right person? And they were like, We're gonna send you our charts concerning some images that they love from your website, and that's kind of a vibe. We want to go with you. But I was just waiting for you to come through and be like, You've confused me with someone else. Somehow you've liked looked at someone else's put fairly and website and you've got my name confused with someone else or whatever. Um, Bina came through and it was It was me in the rodeo. Yeah, Yeah, the sheet was good, but yeah, I think we're all the same in that respect for it. Just like always, second guessing ourselves. And and really, we should just say, you know what? I actually deserve it. Yeah, And I am. Get it? What? Ideo? I think being creative is quite complicated because I think you're constantly toeing the line between being like I'm really fucking good on. But that's what you need to, like, keep growing and keep propelling because especially freelance. You're constantly putting yourself out there. You need to believe in yourself. But then you're also like, you need to stay humble. What? I'm terrible on DH. No one's told me. And I'm just one with you for the walked around thinking that I'm usually e sounds like like about Dick. But that's I think, what makes you I wanna be better. I think you need somewhere in the middle. But when you feel like that, I think what you've got got to remember is that you're not gonna be everybody's cup of tea. Yeah, on. But you are going to be another person. Yeah, So they have Tio think of it that way. S O If you seen this much, if it's creative live or something like that. But Misty Copeland ballerina Oh, yeah, she just watching like an advert for something with her. And she said something about She was saying that people ask her if she wants to be perfect or something, and she's saying, Why would I want to be perfect? Perfect. Then it becomes boring. Are you on? I can't grow a kind of move towards something and what is perfect anywhere. Nothing's perfect. I feel there's a really good way to look at it that you, you know, if you were perfect, everything there's no growth. Something has become very stuck in your earring for you. Exactly. And there's no kind of challenge or your aspiration or motivation. Yeah, I totally agree. Think about Teo touring. How How long would you stay away for? On DH? It varies. Usually it's between, like, two weeks to like a month and 1/2. And he's right in in the Croat like way. Stayed on the bus. Yeah, So you must get like, you must feel quite a bond. Yeah, with everybody. Yeah, I've been very lucky that the majority of people I work with a ll really wonderful humans. So I quite is Ito to share space with France. Quite respectful. And you no good. If you get cramped, it can be. But most even tell luxuries. Yeah. Makes you tend to be pretty, pretty respectful of each other spaces. We try and keep tidy stuff. I find that really hard because I'm quite a messy person. Good. I try and keep it well contained. And I just, like, shovel in my bunk and I'm like, everything's fine. Little denies Max. Yeah, There any kind of Khan's Tio What? You d'oh! Um, I think we've touring being away and missing. Missing things are important. Uh, like a couple of years ago, I was in Australia for a tour on DH. I miss Christmas because we flew on Christmas Eve. So just flying for Christmas Day? Um, no. Stephanie is Eve, which is which was great and it was amazing and one of the best experiences I've ever had. But my brother's birthdays on January the wolf I think it was his 18th birthday. The times I missed his 18th. And what, you know, Miss like boyfriends. Birthdays in my mom's birthday, my dad's birthday, my dad's birthday was falls over festival. So, yeah, I've missed his birthday the last few years on DH but they're very supportive. Yeah, made out. It's not a birthday person. Say he just didn't care. But I do feel that about it. Yeah, it's hard to like. It's hard to find that balance, isn't it? Like, where do you draw the line? I mean, there's a thing with Olly Murs where he missed his brother's wedding because he had X factor. Yeah, commitments. And then they haven't spoken for years. What? Ivan? Yeah, Tweens. That's so kind of sad, isn't it? Oh, I mean, they might have got back together now, but recently he spoke about it. So yeah, I think they haven't spoken for like, 10 years or something. Deaconess. It's a very think being, this file in the music industry. And just I think being a creative in general sometimes is you've got to be quite selfish in pursuit of what you want to some degree, because I'm I'm sure it's the same with you. You money. But when you're doing that Fash insisting, it's, um it's quite gruelling on DH. You know, creative industries don't work on like a 95. If something needs to happen at like midnight. The day before, she used to do it. Yes, so it's not negotiable. I mean, I I went to my 40th birthday, but it was only my best day. It's fine. But it was my fault, you know, on DH. Um, but yeah, you just you just do what you have today and I have done like, I missed my daughter's 16 birthday meal, but it wasn't actually on her birthday. She had another one on her birthday, so it wasn't so bad. But I still felt kind of bad that, you know, But sometimes when the opportunity is there and you just know, you gotta take care for someone wanting to be a photographer, maybe they don't know what kind of talk for they want to be in. Or maybe they do know that want to be a music for talk of him. What kind of advice do you have? I think it's applicable for whether you don't know what you want to do or if you you want to talk for. I think you need to shoot everything to know that you Definitely Yeah, because if I only shot me is going to be really, really bored. I shoot a lot of personal workers she, um a lot of portrait. So she dances stuff I'm really passionate about. And I want this year I want to move back into shooting, shooting more sports and things like that. Andi, think shooting a wide variety makes you about a videographer? Yes. I really don't believe in that jacket. All trades, master of none thing. I think it's okay if you get experience from everything you need to tell the end. Teo. Teo, focus it on one and still have your signature style. Yeah, a lot of my friends. Ah, wedding took office, and I give it a chat about that one point where it's like, if you're if you start shooting music can really help you as a wedding struck firm. Because if you're shooting live music and you're not working for a band, um, there are certain rules that you under a lot pressure. So, for example, if you go and shoot gig like big gig here on a fake pass, you got the 1st 3 songs, and then you're not actually flash, so you're sort of at the mercy of whatever the lighting person does. So you get very good at learning a how to get a lot of photos and a lot of good photos in nine minutes. Essentially. Um, So So I've got this right. You're only allowed to shoot through the first street. Fell not making with the band if you adjust somewhere in a press party. Oh, I see. What sort of? If you're working in the band, you've got free range. Yeah, yeah. If you go off like a magazine or an agency creating a gig for someone else, Yeah, yeah, There may be reasons just from the front of the pit where I am, that's it. And then you're out and you can't use a flash. So presumably, if you're with the band you get from the Wiggins from the front from where? Yeah, Hide behind guitar. Absolute dear. You're gonna crawling around. Yeah. Is yes. I be comfortable. Practical clothing? Yeah, it's It's a lot of a lot of black clothes, A lot of yoga pants. Yeah, just think shooting of a different variety of things and learning from different genres of photography just could make you about a photographer in general. And there's no reason that you can't take something from one generally like how I would cheat music and apply it. Tio weddings, for example. I guess people who were just getting who wanted to get into music took field, just getting into it. She's everything on. Like she she go shoot local shows. Because if you can make like crap, venues look good or possible, then you will find stadiums and stuff a lot easier. Yeah, you know, the you can just night and stuff becomes a breeze. Yeah, it's similar to what I said before, I guess. But like the more diverse environments that you can shoot in, the better you'll get. Um, just because then you overcome that Any challenges in any job, your friend being toe, Ask Teo to shoot things. And don't be afraid of people saying no. And so if somebody wanted to assist, how would they go about getting to see someone like a I'm just email. I don't take assistance on very often because we've life stuff. I just can't have assistance. Yeah, it's I can't keep an eye on someone on by moving around so much. There's really no need for an assistant. Yeah, um, bitten studio. I do you sometimes bringing new people. Although I have a couple of assistants who has sort of tried and tested. Yeah, and who I trust. And you know how I work. So But there are other way, other kind of situations where someone can try and be an assistant. And I think that's the best way to learn, isn't it? Because, Officer yeah, you get to reach out to other photographers and or even reach out Tio two photo studios. Yeah, and be like, can I Can I come Help and Assistance Studios? Can I Can I help you run the studio? Bit like I can Can change backdrops and things for you. I can order stuff. I think just being around that environment and watching people set up lights and watching how people direct models or clients is is really

spk_1:   27:04
good. So, Justin in

spk_0:   27:16
music Welcome Tori again. Uh, and next month I think we start something fun. Um, but festivals and things lined up here. Who you touring with? Um, wonder. They're like indie pop. The best way to put it. Yeah. There a duet? Yeah, because she because she can discover bands as well. Yeah, it's really nice. I am. I got to work with a band called the Preservation Hall Jazz Band a couple of years ago. There's 40 Arcade Fire, said a few dates with them on. They were incredible. So Preservation Hall is a venue in New Orleans. I'm not sure how old it is that the guy who was sort of the band lead now his dad used to run it on it. Xev, anywhere people like can either go play all I record. The Foo Fighters recorded part of an album there, like Preservation, Cool Band were involved in the writing and they think recording of that. But they were just such incredible musicians and, said Iverson, the age range was insane. I think Thie oldest sky was like I don't want to insult bank He was, like, 86 like that, But he was just 10 years. Definitely, definitely, definitely an older guy, and I think the youngest was 26 really nice, diverse range of features on DH, just all such incredible musicians and also junior that I don't ever work in normally like jazz and funk and that sort of thing. Yes, it was a really, really great experience. Sounds amazing. I mean, that's the beauty ofthe anything creative. I think it just there's just no age on it. Is there really? Yeah. And also it can really kind of bring together all age. Range is quite big age gap between being It's fine. It's like you're e. I think you look younger than I d. Oh, God, I know. Told on the banks have just become a facial feature. It's No, it's not like a figure. Don't how some days it's just part of my face now, do you get much late from told? I, um I try. I mean, luckily, your young c can handle it, but yeah, they I need my sleep. Well, so I have a chronic fatigue sentence was something that was interesting to try and deal with. Well, yeah, balance with? Yeah. Before I take a lot supplements and just generally try to look after myself. I'm really, really healthy on tour and try not to drink. I'm not a massive drinker anyway, but there's no, like wild parties or anything. Some of them sometimes there are that I'm normally like I'm gonna bed. Sorry. Yeah, quite boring. But, you know, there's, like, the end of the end of tour party is always is always a blast, but save it for the

spk_1:   30:07
end, Would you say was a kind of obvious TTE?

spk_0:   30:21
Or maybe not so obvious differences between, say, a fashion photographer on DH, the music photographer? Um, it's a good question. I'm I mean, do you know much about fashion? Not huge chance. I know some passion struck faces, but no, I can't say I've ever really been unlike fashion. She especially not like, I guess, more like high end fashion, but many golden. She is who you talked with quite often. Yes, she's She's sort of a question and kind off she philtres into fashion. Or because she's kind of like a style. Yeah, Baikonur is well, I think with sometimes it's sometimes this is the case. I feel like fashion shits. You probably got a lot more people direction. The sheep Let your you'll have like a creative director. Well, I cannot direct a producer of photographer. You'll have more assistance. Yeah, I guess so. If it's a big yeah, whereas with the pressures and things, you don't even have stylists like Esso. I think with this country, everyone's always trying Teo trying to get things as cheap as possible, so that probably haven't seen fashion. Teo Yeah, yeah, but said there'll be lines we don't need. Stylist. The band have close, it's fine. And I'm like, Please don't show up in tact Ops. That's a challenge. So sometimes you end up sort of having to be the stylist as well as they say they could do their make up or yeah, yeah, like you have never had anyone make up because I would honestly end terribly. I had to, like, shop with fans before any or just give really, like, strict directives off what? Where, what we're doing wearing. There's also, you know, this may be this is similar in fashion, but I think I do a lot of like set building and we're producing as well as taking photos and editing and things like that. Yeah, I guess sometimes of talk for might have to do with that. If they haven't got set designer or or even the stylist has to kind of jump in and be all director as well. Yeah, so I guess, is similarities there. But obviously, I guess the biggest difference is that it's a much longer process for you because you're going on tour and Oh, yeah, Yeah, I'm sorry. Authorities to studio stuff. Yeah, right. Okay, Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously I think we often working less more, more less than optimum environments. Yes, that really poorly. But I mean stuff. That's the stuff. That's not as pretty. Maybe, like, I would imagine fashion structures often either on in studios or like an outdoor set. Whereas I'm like, we're in a very dingy backstage of the venue And, like even even big venues and use, like, one billion things. The backstage is pretty ugly. It's pretty clinical and not very nice. I'm so well here. I mean, like, someone just give me a white wall. I just need white wolf. That's all I need on. You know, there were painted, like, horrible yellow for something. What images you proud off? What were you really happy with that you weren't expecting to come out as well? It's a good question. His name? I think a lot of time with him on a sheet. I'll know when I've got an image and I'm not got set. And that's the one. Yeah. Um, there was I did a show with Ellie in Rio rock in Rio, which is a huge best work, things from the big festivals in the world. And it's definitely the biggest stage and just general area. I've had to shoot in, and it was a so normally, when you're on a stage, even just come off the side of the stage and go around to the front, but were then you had to walk around the whole of the site, where I sort of backstage to get to the front of the stage. So it was a good sort, a four minute walk which, when you think about that in terms of a set, that's a song. So it would take me like a song to walk from the stage to the front of stage. Yeah, just the whole song. Yeah, which is an ideal with that. It was just so huge and they've sent rushing around. And there's a lot of pyro and queues and things that while I shooting, I was I got a hit from getting something and you know, so no, not like shooting on births, mood or anything like that, not just start shooting randomly, but I was definitely I came away from it and I said, I don't know why I got from that because I didn't have time to think running. I'm sure you like you can make something work, you know. Yeah. Um, touch Wood is probably gonna happen now, isn't it that it's been a very long time, if ever that I've come away from a shoot that night, none of this is usable. I didn't have ever happened. I currently sheet with Nikon's so I've ever wish up. Nikon's my gears a d some 50 on a d 8 50 bye. Which among the wiser, that pretty bulky, but yeah, I'm sure, is good to know some people. Yeah, Yeah, they're pretty bulky cameras. I tried shooting with Marylise, which lets small light ones on DH. I don't think that I need something that's got a bit of weight to it. I'm also really clumsy, and I don't treat my kid very well. So I need something that I could just chalk around and it won't break. But those are amazing cameras that you know, the proper black horses. Yeah, So that and also so I didn't use to shoot with a harness, and then a couple of years ago, I started working on the harness, which means I can have two camera bodies literally on me at all times, which is a game changer. So you're not sort of leaving a camera somewhere on stage than we know what you look at the camera with the other lens on and things like that. Yeah, I presume a bit costs money, but obviously it's an investment. Yeah. So it's a lot of money. Teo. Teo, get, you know, proper pro gear. I will say that you don't need, like, top of the range cameras and things. And if you're just starting out, I don't want people to feel like you need to spend thousands of thousands of pounds. Yeah, Yeah. Um, that I like. I worked my cameras into the ground. I tried to trade in one of my old ones for for the newer version store recently that we can't take it. It's far too terrible. Yeah, I completely like fucked it. Basically, it's still one of my favourite cameras to use its innate 10 for anybody. That's a camera in listening, and it's just my old faithful, but it is on, like an insane amount of photos so late with cameras, you have shut actuacion Sze Just like the number of times that you've taken a vato essentially right on the sort of I'm not gonna create the number. I'm definitely gonna get it wrong, but there's a certain amount that they're sort of tested up to, which is where people like they'll normally last to this. And I've definitely gone, like, three or four times over there. So I'm sure it'll probably like to break on me one day, but, uh, so did you learn the technical side of thing? Mostly on the job. Would you say just on the job? I never took a class or anything like that. I never had any formal training ready? Yeah, I guess them practical. Yeah. Is the Kato really learning something? It's like driving isn't. Yeah, And I'm also someone that, like, never reads instructions I preferred, like, gets me out of the box and try and figure out how to put it together. And then if I get stuck for reading instruction, but nails you the same, they Yeah. I mean, you obviously have to take some qualifications, but to get good at now. Yes. Holding the practise. Yeah, for sure. I mean, once you've done qualifications, you're not instantly good at now. Yeah, you have to go away and you have to get the experience, and you have to practise and, yeah, you know. Yeah, I guess it's the same with photography. Um, as with nails, like in fashion storeys, you've got to be quite good people. Yeah. So much of it isn't about the attack. It's about being my go. I could make some uncomfortable people like me, so I'm gonna recommend me. You know what? Also they're gonna perform, but like, they feel relaxed. Yeah. Founded a camera, that kind of thing. Definitely with that. I guess that's another sort of difference between and fashion photographers on DH music. Breakfast is the fashion. Your wife models a lot. Yeah, well, you know how to be in front of the camera a lot of time. Music. You're no. Yeah. Look quite uncomfortable. You have to really make her feel there are a lot of direction. But then other times I get August, it's a personality thing. Like some people are like, Cool with it. Uh, but the model is the hardest thing. God, yeah. it's meaning. Sometimes the things that they have to like where and stand in You're like you're in Iceland and you're wondering the bikini. Yeah, and the energy they have to kind of gay after that initial, and it's so tiring for them. So, yeah, whenever I'm tired, don't say I'm like but think of the model

spk_1:   39:33
and I sort of started out thinking

spk_0:   39:35
maybe I wanted to be a sports truck fair. It's like no music that I've definitely found. If he is, that what I'm most interested in estimation and stuff that things were a lot of emotional display, which is totally one drawn to music. And with that, I think when an image is really emotional, it really makes the viewer, yeah, feel something totally on. That's what I was really drawn to with your work here is that it's not just it's just not pretty, not just a pretty picture or cool picture. There's, like war emotion there, which is it must be so hard to capture. And I think it's an amazing skill. So you're only gonna get bigger. Thank you so much. Yeah, that's it. Thank you. That's really nice you want You want a feeling. Yeah, you want a failing? I think it's trying to make the way something feels tangible. You look at someone like Tim Walker. Yeah. Example. Exactly. Huge concepts, most the time, but they're still feeling that you don't. It doesn't get lost in the detail of everything it's you're still always drawn to, like, I think, the model and what's going on. Yeah, I know it's not lost in his huge like, you know, are some wonderland mushrooms that, like the size of a building or some, But it's also the detail. Yeah, isn't it? That is really kind of like, Well, how'd you like, You know, I love them ready and they just definitely the best in Ireland.

spk_1:   41:12
Thank you so much to Jenny's coming on the podcast and completing my very first series. I strongly advise everyone to take a look at Jenny's stunning work. Jennifer called photo dot com, and you can follow her blossoming career on instagram at J. R. C. McCord. It's all in the show. If you enjoyed listening to the manicure table, creative conversations with me cherry snow and you want to hear from more creative than subscribe to the podcast on, Follow us on instagram at the manicure table. If you have any feedback or you just want to get in touch, you can contact may either on instagram at Cherry Snow Or you can email manager at cherry snow dot com. I'd love to hear from you. Thanks for listening.