Running a Make-Up Business with James Malloy

spk_0:   0:00
I like something short and clean workable. But you know that my kid co signature colour is blue like a Tiffany blue, right? So if you can give me something a little special, maybe with our cute face logos

spk_1:   0:14
Hi, everyone. Welcome to the manicure table. Creative Conversations with Me, Terry Snow. Every episode I invite my fashion friends in Creative Colleague to get their nails done with me and talk candidly about how and where they're incredible journeys began. Thiss episode is sponsored by my favourite Healthy Now Care bio sculpture. 100% vegan on DH 40 free. For more information, visit the new pc dot co dot UK. In this episode, I'm Medicare and chat to makeup artist extraordinaire James Malloy. James tells us how he went from making beauty videos in his kitchen to become in the king ofthe content and gaining the role ofthe global makeup ambassador at Rimmel London. He gives us his top tips to instagram success, where to look for inspiration and how to really make it in the beauty industry. We also talked about his makeup school near Manchester and the making off his phenomenal beauty brand. My Kitco is the one and only James Malloy. I'm so happy you're here.

spk_0:   1:35
Thank you for having me excited. Always find time for you.

spk_1:   1:37
So before we get started on how you got started in the parties, can you just tell me a bit about your background? Like, Wait. Grew up

spk_0:   1:44
for sure. So I'm a northerner. Tell by the accent.

spk_1:   1:48
Just like just

spk_0:   1:49
a 12. Yes. Our group in the northeast of England in a tie. Little town called Stokely, which is kind of on the North York moors. A really cute place to live. Kind of boring if Mona's pretty boring.

spk_1:   2:02
Yeah, Little places,

spk_0:   2:06
super quiet. You know, when you kind of growing up in school and you're interested in different things. You know, I kind of I was interested in fashion and beauty and hair and makeup. You kind of stand out like a sore thumb in a place like that. You know, I think people are quite traditional still cooking, and not that I don't love it, but I was like, I need more like I want something more. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I kind of went through high school thinking I don't think this quite for me, Really? And then actually a good friend of mine moved over to Manchester. And at the time, you know, Manchester was it was pretty much all of it was that the era of Oasis to Manchester was really on the map. And so my friend moved to Manchester. I remember going to visit her and thinking this place is amazingly no. I would go to affects Palace and just get lost in that kind of whole kind of ah club kids club where, like, music scene on it? Kind of. I guess it open. We are to, you know, there was more to it than just that little cute village in the Northeast.

spk_1:   2:57
So you live in London now?

spk_0:   2:59
I don't have to live in Manchester. Yeah, I've had a bit of a journey, so I moved to Manchester when I was 20. I started working in jigsaw menswear, which at the time was really cool, and I was doing bm visual merchandiser.

spk_1:   3:11
Okay, so on. So I

spk_0:   3:14
would kind of make the shot looked pretty and do the shop windows, and I thought I'd arrived. I thought this was, like, the be all and end all of This is amazing. I used to go on at the time. Manchester Club scene was amazing. Like Paradise Factory was insane. I think queer as folk just come out on TV. So there's a huge focus on Manchester and it's kind of, you know, God, Really? Yeah, but not for work. Not like it's got such a great scene.

spk_1:   3:40
Teo Teo, be from Manchester. I

spk_0:   3:43
cast myself as an honorary monk even though I didn't grow up there. I do feel like I'm kind of Yeah, but back to kind of get back to back to my early days in Manchester. So s I moved there when I was 20 and I did that GM job for a little while. And then I remember walking into a house of Fraser store bond hearing this music kind of turning the corner and seeing Mac, you know, Mac was still pretty much brand new to Manchester at the time, and there was guys working on counter. There was amazing looking girls working on counter, and it was kind of the first thing that really opened my eyes, too. Makeup artistry as a a za career, really are this guy's working on a makeup counter. That's unusual. Andi think Mack was such a pioneering brand and still is. But back then, especially on DSO, maybe six months into my life I was like Mac was opening up in a new counter at the traffic centre. I'm going to go for an interview. So I got myself a little interview, turned up with my, you know, Green fully like bright eyed, bushy tailed. Never had never having done makeup before. I had an interview with the manage area manager at the time, and she was like, Yeah, I'm going to give you a full time job So within a couple of weeks, I found myself on counter. But before that, I had a week's long intensive training with Mr Terry Barber.

spk_1:   4:55
Yeah, yeah. Hey,

spk_0:   4:57
Makeup legend back legend on DH. It was funny we had We were in a room at this hotel in Manchester that was like eight of us on DH. Terry was kind of really took me under his wing, and he told me, taught me that makeup doesn't have to just be pretty and perfect. It can be grungy. It can be. Roy can be on Drudge Innis hour. It can be glum, You know, as we opened my eyes to all of this massive world of backstage and reference and got me super excited about being a makeup artist.

spk_1:   5:22
Oh, did you ever assist him?

spk_0:   5:25
Yeah, I assisted a lot. So I mean, living in Manchester, you have to work doubly hard because I knew that everything had happened in London. Right on. I was just like this little kid in Manchester, like, trying take to get noticed. I sweat my ass off. I got to say people always ask me what? Like, how did you get to where you are today? Through grit, determination and not never feeling like, You know, being in being in the North was a bad thing. I almost kind of use it to my advantage.

spk_1:   5:50
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've never left in London. Yeah, I live in Essex, but it's not as faras Manchester. You

spk_0:   5:58
don't feel like you're in.

spk_1:   5:59
Yeah, I know, but I actually like you like to come away. Yeah, well, step away from everyone from it. And then

spk_0:   6:08
I think it's good for the mind and more and more of my creative friends kind of moving a little bit further out and then they'll just come in for work. So but at the time, you've got to remember. So I'm on this mat counter in Manchester. There's no social media, so you don't have that. You can't talk about yourself that way. Yeah, and so I was just like I would just work doubly hard. I would like to do as many friends. Makeup was possible. I would kind of just get You have to just get to know your local community who's shooting which photographers are there, which starless are there, you know, and just kind of push yourself that way.

spk_1:   6:37
So you started to build big, started to

spk_0:   6:40
build a bullfight. Yeah, And when I look back, it, you know, it was it was kind of terrible, but also makes me really proud because I

spk_1:   6:46
was doing it. You know, when you

spk_0:   6:47
look back at your first test, you

spk_1:   6:49
I know everything in the kitchen sink.

spk_0:   6:52
Let's just do it all.

spk_1:   6:53
Yeah, let's just show my skill. Only

spk_0:   6:57
all of this will phase a ridiculous, But I kind of, you know, I think that is China and error and it just what makes it's where you kind of hone your skills for me. Yeah, you know.

spk_1:   7:06
So then how did you make that transition being a professional in the fashion industry,

spk_0:   7:12
which is that's the number one question I always get asked like So, how do you go from working on a counter to working back? So at the time, there was a thing called the Mac protein which we would they would do fashion week around like all of the four major cities. And another another cities, too. And I kind of was my goal to get on this team. I was like, I'm gonna do I'm gonna do it. Um, And so within three years of working like blood, sweat tears, I was I was promoted to the Maxine Waters for the UK, so all of a sudden I was I went from this being being this full time makeup artist to working alongside Terry Barber on. Do you know at the time, some from some Chapman was a senior artist for MCAS? Well, you know, from real techniques on, So all of a sudden I was kind of among this, like, elite team, and and I was part of my first show and I'll never forget. It was with shower and douse it.

spk_1:   8:02
Yeah, you're a

spk_0:   8:03
legend. And she scared the life out of me. And the look was it was

spk_1:   8:07
that she's such a woman. She is initially kind of scary. So strong woman. Yeah, Yeah, that's strong.

spk_0:   8:14
She was talking about all of this reference and like this really, like, cool makeup. Look, And I was like, Okay, sweating, terrified, working on the most beautiful face. I've never seen paces like that in my life. I can't have these people. Even real thes models are amazing. And it was actually issue if I remember until there was, you know, doing my first show up London Fashion Week. And I thought, you know, I knew then I knew exactly what needed to be at the time. Mark was supporting, like, make a legend like Val Girl and Tom Perez show Charlotte Tilbury. In fact, I think my first ever trip away was a bul gari show with Charlotte Tilbury in ST Petersburg. And again I think I was 2122. Zoning. And just like Charlotte, was this huge personality, terrifying, amazing, like it was obsessed for the moment, I literally saw it to make. It was actually insane state. Insanely talented. Yeah, but it was terrifying. You know, the look was, like, typical Charlotte. Beautiful winged eyeliner, immaculate skin. I'm gonna say that glow perfect brow. And I'm gonna say, Charlotte, till we taught me how to do an eyeliner. And she taught me how to do a supermodel brow through lots of trial and error and, you know, and it was okay to kind of make a few mistakes, But next time, make sure you better get it right, you know?

spk_1:   9:33
So he was really kept on your ties.

spk_0:   9:35
It was a baptism of fire. I always say that Fashion Week taught me how to do makeup quickly.

spk_1:   9:39
Yeah, absolutely perfectly the first

spk_0:   9:42
time. Otherwise, you know, you kind of get the shame. You kind of

spk_1:   9:46
it. Sometimes when you're thrown in the deep end like that, it really makes you learn. Yeah. I think

spk_0:   9:51
you've got a turnout, because you know that Yes, that one was having her hair pulled left, right, and centre. And she's having the nails. You better give me a perfect exactly. Or, you know, it's game over. And so, like, I've always in those situations when it's really stressful. I always kind of go in turn and I think Okay, break. I would like to break a makeup look down two step by step, you know? So if it's like a perfect right live probably. OK, so we're going to do point a point B point C, and I'm gonna give your glory skin. Is that going?

spk_1:   10:29
I want to talk about your brand. Mikey Kay. Yeah, which I'm sure everybody knows about my baby. I mean, every time. Like, I won't say everyone's got the make up bags and they're just like, kitted out with your staff. Still

spk_0:   10:44
makes me feel really proud to this day. And I was still kind of shocked, like, really, you know, my kid,

spk_1:   10:52
it's not just make up artists, manicurists coming, coming for

spk_0:   10:56
anybody. You know, it can be to pack for a beautiful vacation if you want, you know, I mean, like, it's just really functional. So I guess I came to my kit go after 15 years of market. But one point I would move to Hong Kong, and I was that I was the director for Asia Pacific and I was taking care of all of these countries, from Japan to Korea to Australia, New Zealand. That was kind of like the pinnacle of my career at math. Really reached the top and not really want to rest on my laurels. You know, I kind of had this amazing career and I loved every moment of it. But after 15 years, amnesia is a new challenge. So I decided to go quit. I quit this amazing job. Yeah, I was like, I love you, Mark. But it's time to move on. I feel like I've given all that could give. I'd learned all he could learn, and I was like, Okay, I need a new challenge. And so I quit that job in the back of my mind was that maybe, just maybe, one day I could have my own brand and I didn't know what I could be. And then I was OK. Bags. I was a content on the search to try and find a bag I would go to marks. Spencer's got two screenplays. I would go to Ricky's in New York on. I would kind of collect all of these kind of hodgepodge of bags on DH. They would never really working my kicks. They weren't kind of made to fit together.

spk_1:   12:03
There was always something that you could change. Yeah, exactly. So may better do you

spk_0:   12:08
want? Some of my friends were obsessed with organising, I think, as creatives. We also love organisation. We like kids looked like a perfect right to do the same.

spk_1:   12:17
Yeah, absolutely. And I've always striving to improve it. So it's more practical. It's more professional.

spk_0:   12:26
Looks bloody good

spk_1:   12:27
looks. Yeah, when

spk_0:   12:29
you open that kid, you want people to be like, Wow,

spk_1:   12:32
she knows what she's doing.

spk_0:   12:36
And so, you know, it's my Kitco started with. I think I wanted maybe 12 brushes in the range on a few bucks, and my boyfriend always laughed at because Alex is my life partner, but also my business partner. And so we worked together on everything. He's kind of with a perfect being and young. I do all of the creative stuff and kind of decide what we need. Where is he? Kind of organises the shipping on the taxes and the the Microsoft Excel spreadsheets, which kind of send me crazy. So he's really good at that. So Mikey coincided with 12 bridges which quickly grew to I think we launched with 40. And then I was

spk_1:   13:13
like, Yeah, let's

spk_0:   13:13
have a couple of bugs, which I think when we launched, which was four years ago now we launched with six bags. Um, and then we really look you. And this is why I'm always thankful for the all of the support the industry, because people got behind us really quickly. You know, I remember of alcohol and tweeting about was imposing about was in, like, the third or fourth week. And I think that's testament from working from working with her for so long and also, you know, really

spk_1:   13:40
What? That relationship?

spk_0:   13:41
Yeah. You know, I think this industry is all about relationships with your group.

spk_1:   13:44
Yeah, absolutely. And reputations as well. You know,

spk_0:   13:48
we started my kicker in the spare bedroom of our house. There was 1,000,000 Alex and a pile of boxes.

spk_1:   13:54
I mean, how did you know where to begin? We didn't really. I mean, it was good. Yeah.

spk_0:   14:02
Yeah. Beginner's guide to start a business. I guess what we did in those I mean, there's so many funny moments. We because at the time I was living in Hong Kong. And so I was kind of surprising from Shanghai on So we would hop on the train just me and Alex on our friend candy who could speak Mandarin. She would come and interpret for being rough on a road trip. Andi would end up in these random bike wholesalers in the middle of Guang Zhou or Shenzhen Not having a clue what we were doing. Just say OK, we like this but can we can we make it this shape? We've got an idea from fossil brush is would you be able to make them? And it was a really like at one point were on the back of a lorry with a pile of boxes in the middle of nowhere, thinking if nobody ever hears from was again, you know, let's take some being telling them where we are because this is really we don't know where we are. You know, it was crazy. It was really from the grassroots up. We didn't We didn't go to a shiny showroom and go with this. This and this. It was a really, like boxes and and shipping in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, so we started my kicker. We got all about first stock over to the UK. That's really cute, by the way. On

spk_1:   15:12
by, just I actually didn't have just done that from memory is pretty good. Thought you might not be perfect.

spk_0:   15:18
I like it. And that blue is actually perfect. Yes, So we ended up doing are for shipping and getting overto a little house in Manchester. And, um, just just hoping for the best. Really hoping for the best and thinking. Well, people even notices. How do we begin? Like, hopefully this is going to resonate with people. And it was really scary. You know, at this point, I didn't have a job, you know, my kicker was my job, and so we really part. We put a lot of, you know, you have to be brave. I think to succeed in this interest, you've got to be bold. You've got to be brave. And I meet somebody created that. I've got so many ideas and all right, we'll do it. That go.

spk_1:   15:52
I think fear is what sets everyone back. And you just got to face it and just do it Anyway.

spk_0:   15:58
You got overhead. You got about

spk_1:   15:59
had it even doing this has given me anxiety Because you're

spk_0:   16:04
putting your heart soul out there,

spk_1:   16:05
right? Yeah. And it's like, Well, Teo,

spk_0:   16:09
you're such a like, like, such a warm, likeable person. And I think you think storytelling people want to know how you got, Like, I'm super interested to know how you got where you are. You know what I mean?

spk_1:   16:20
Why is to wait for one hour? Oh, yeah, You know, I do. Yeah. Yeah. I actually got a book. Well, just briefing about you, but I just got the barn owl's book, and I never even heard of them on. And I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna teach myself. So now and then and then I kind of understood that it was actually a place. I thought if I could just go work there, So I just applied. Amazing. He got the job. Even though I was Sounds like May, I was Yeah. Yes. Maybe they saw some potential. Yeah, with you.

spk_0:   16:54
Put yourself out there. Yeah, Jonah, me and I think it's just having that baldy first step. Okay, I'm gonna do I'm really making a decision. You had to say I'm actually going to do his own, represent and not having any doubt.

spk_1:   17:04
And I was actually working for long calm on the counter

spk_0:   17:08
on the makeup that

spk_1:   17:08
Mac can tie. Yeah, on DH, I'd been there 11 years. Jeez. And so I got the job. But one hours in Oxford Stream and burying while I lived in Essex and worked in a six for long calm. And I literally worked six days a week every weekend commuted in training on and it was like the late shift as well. And I did that for nine months because I was so determined. Teo, just do now on be after moving to get it. Now that's the thing

spk_0:   17:43
I love. That inspires me because you've got it. You've just got to No matter if it's to our journey there and back, you just got to do it

spk_1:   17:50
and things. You got to think it's not gonna be forever. It's just, you know, you just gotta work hard.

spk_0:   17:56
It's tough for now, but hopefully we'll

spk_1:   17:57
Yeah, and now your Bible.

spk_0:   18:07
That's right. That's right. And I think that's also been an amazing journey and something I'm super proud of. And I got it. I think I've gotta thank social media for that, we have to talk about the white elephant in the room.

spk_1:   18:16
Yeah, the devil. You literally are content. When I first met you, I can never fully be inferring that. I thought

spk_0:   18:26
it was a real top. Yeah, I think it was. I think it was. Yeah,

spk_1:   18:29
so are fascinating. And you had all these lights. You would. You're doing content constantly. You were like like, you do, like, close behind the scenes diamond business. He's just taking every opportunity to present

spk_0:   18:46
in that moment.

spk_1:   18:46
Yeah. Yeah. And then I remember you saying to me were really lucky because we get access to these to these behind the scenes and these models on DH, you know, just like And people want to see people want accent. People

spk_0:   19:01
are dying for the access. And I think, you know, you've got to just take a step back. And this is what I always believed. I think in those moments where you can be on an amazing set, like stunning models in great styling, and you've just got to get used to that really quickly. But sometimes you've got to remove yourself. Just take a step back and okay, let me look around. And actually, you take this in. People want to see that. But listen, I started my instagram from my kitchen with a beauty. Like a girl that worked in the Hilton. She was cute. She lived on the road. Your beautiful eyes. No, I remember one day I was I was We were in the hotel for some reason. I'm a coffee, and this girl can't dead cute girls. So she was like, she served his coffee. And you've got really beautiful eyes. Sound a bit creepy.

spk_1:   19:42
Wait. What? Yeah. Would you be interested?

spk_0:   19:48
Like shooting some stuff for Instagram and she was that Okay, Cool. I'll let you. That weekend, she came around. I had a little ring light. I had my iPhone on a bust out like a few eyeliner looks and a few this and that. And they started an attraction. You know, people at the time, that macro thing was still quite new. You know, those close ups on the eyes? Um, And then the next week, you came back and we did Maureen, it just tied. That started this kind of like, snowball effect. And it really gave me an hour that wasn't in the studio. I didn't have to rely on a photographer with perfect lighting. It was just me and a girl on an iPhone on DH, just creating content that people were into, you know, and I think it's great to super magazines. But also, I think, with social media that is, that is your shop window. That's your portfolio.

spk_1:   20:30
You say video is really

spk_0:   20:32
yeah. Then along came video stills were like people living still for a while. But then along came video, and then you have to switch again like it's ever have to ever evolve. You know what I mean? And so So I got on the back of video pretty quickly as well, and I always wanted with my videos. I wanted that kind of satisfaction when it whether it's like a perfect line of liner or whether it's like an amazingly blood lip or whatever, you know, I tried to get things in, like a 22nd Spotify come so people can enjoy it real time, but back to rebel. So you know, it was pushing me into going really hard, and I think Ramon must have just noticed me, and

spk_1:   21:09
so this is a perfect example. Instead, I'm getting you

spk_0:   21:13
a nice a really lovely job

spk_1:   21:15
with great brand. So it is a business thing. I mean, I did business.

spk_0:   21:20
Totally. It's art and commerce. You know, your art brings in the commerce, And I think, you know, from an early age, I really understood the fact that what we're doing here it is visually satisfying, and it's good for your creativity. But also, you know, we are working. We'll work and make a part is it's a biz on. So you know what you put out there brings draws attention. And so yeah, rumour got in touch, and there was a there was I think it was night makeup artist for at the time.

spk_1:   21:45
So were you with an agent at this point?

spk_0:   21:47
I just joined Premier. Yeah,

spk_1:   21:48
right. Yeah. So that was

spk_0:   21:50
three years ago, so I just Yeah, I'm in my third year for real now.

spk_1:   21:55
You're only a premiere for, like, three years. Yeah, three years. Okay.

spk_0:   21:59
And, you know, I think I've been with him for two and 1/2 years.

spk_1:   22:03
So it was premier. Your first. I didn't see Well,

spk_0:   22:08
it wasn't actually I was with frank agency briefly before I went to Hong Kong, and they were great, but I'm really a lot, Frank. I think they do. Amazing. Like like, great celebs. And like, some beautiful commercial work in editorial. But then I moved to Hong Kong, start to lead them on. Then Premier obviously, was such a well known agency. And I really, um I really enjoyed being with him, but I think at the time, I was like, you know, kind of self sufficient. Yeah, quite self sufficient. And I like

spk_1:   22:33
you know what? That's the same. May

spk_0:   22:35
think that's where the the industry's going as well.

spk_1:   22:37
You know, I think you have

spk_0:   22:38
to do what's right for you in this industry, you know,

spk_1:   22:40
absolutely. Left agency. How

spk_0:   22:43
did you feel about it? You have anxiety when you're

spk_1:   22:46
doing the right thing. But deep down inside, I knew I was doing the right thing. Yeah,

spk_0:   22:50
well, I don't know. Do you agree? I think when you Okay, so we start off on our careers, and we're like, Okay, I'm gonna be a makeup artist. I'm gonna be an amazing, like manicurist. Let's get an agency

spk_1:   22:58
that sets the goal. Isn't it? The ultimate goal. Yeah, And then when you get an agent, you still have to graft. You still have Teo, you know, not

spk_0:   23:06
more cause all of us in your amongst this group of amazing piers Yeah. Jesus. How am I going to stand out?

spk_1:   23:11
Yeah, it must be so much worse for you because there's so many makeup. Artist

spk_0:   23:15
is a lot of makeup. I think when you do have a clear idea of who you are and what you do, you know, I can I can say that my makeup demographic, it could be quite beauty and commercial, but I'm okay with that. Like, it could be quite glam sometimes, or I can strip it right back. But I think as long as you have a clear idea

spk_1:   23:31
So what would you say? Your signature kind of start?

spk_0:   23:33
I think I'm known for graphic. I'm no liner. Yeah, a beauty and eyeliner. I predominately shoot beauty, you know, fashion every now and again. But I think I'm known for beauty. Really? Yeah. It's good to know what you don't like. I can say I don't really do on George Anne. I don't really do super raw. I really appreciate people who do do that. But it's just not my thing.

spk_1:   23:51
Yeah, absolutely.

spk_0:   23:53
Yeah, everything has to be a bit polished on. I do. Then it comes back to kind of referencing and what you enjoy. And I think perhaps the idea of reference is a little bit lost these days, you know? I mean, like, Well, I guess when I was doing the show, as you know, I was working with people like violent who take on a journey, that taking on a bit of a storey where there was kind of, like, dark and kind of, you know, she would talk about like great illustrators like Raissi's on all of those kind of like Amazing Illustrated. Or she'd take you down like Peter Lindbergh route with, like photography's like you talk about all of these people really opened my eyes up to makeup isn't just make up for that has to tell a storey you know what it's like being on a fashion set when there's a whole storey and you can see the like, Who is she? You know, I mean, like, I love that I love to know that the whole concept,

spk_1:   24:39
my great, because otherwise you can just go off on attending. Yeah, has to like being keeping

spk_0:   24:46
I'm not. Nothing works together, right?

spk_1:   24:47
Yeah. And they obviously the looks have to cut. Kind of connect. Yeah. So I agree. It is good to have an actual storey rather than just a concept. You

spk_0:   24:58
unless you do this for the sake of it, Almost like a loses its heart. So when you do, I think

spk_1:   25:03
I just wantto go back. Tio, you as an investor, What does that mean? What you expected as an investor.

spk_0:   25:11
So with rebel, it's kind of you have such an iconic British brown on DH, you know, taking the raging along like exactly and its iconic with that people know it. I think what I do on my day today is I shoot all of their campaigns. I shoot that TV commercials. I talked a lot about product development and kind of helped steer the brand in that direction. Do press. I do. I do a bit of everything that gets a real 3 60 role, which I think also kind of getting used to hearing yourself on camera and seeing yourself in cameras really big. If you want to go for those ambassador rolls. I just kind of like push yourself. You've got to be so comfortable in talking on DH seeing yourself on camera. And that takes a lot for us because we're normally behind this dry.

spk_1:   25:51
Yeah, exactly. You've got to be a pretty present. Represent, Represent. Yeah.

spk_0:   25:58
People want to know you. That's the thing.

spk_1:   26:00
Did you have to get did you to an initial meeting? And then what did it take to find the deal?

spk_0:   26:06
Oh, yeah, it was a big It was It was a big It was a meeting, first of all, and then it was this amazing challenge. I'm not going to give away too much, but Rimmel said was a challenge on you have to produce something.

spk_1:   26:19
It's like a

spk_0:   26:21
It was It was an audition. It really was an audition. Yeah. Yeah. And that involved everything from artistry to speaking on camera to kind of showing your concept in where you think beauties are like trend forecasting all of those things. So it was It was a tough challenge, but yeah. Thank God I got through to the end.

spk_1:   26:38
You must have bean. So phase one achievement.

spk_0:   26:40
Thank you. So much our super happy with it.

spk_1:   26:48
The ground is so hard. How do you know what you text

spk_0:   26:53
again? Yeah, I remember our first conversation. You were like instagram.

spk_1:   26:57
I got time way again.

spk_0:   27:05
Is that kind of that same thing? People like. They know it's important, but they almost kind of It's the devil and the angel like it, it will. It could be your best friend, but it can also get inside your head. I think first and foremost, you've got to got to make yourself enjoy it on. You've got to be present in the moment. Like you said before, you know it might be. You might just just feel like you're tidying your kit or you're just doing another French monitors or whatever. People want to see that what we do, people want to see.

spk_1:   27:31
I remember you saying that, too, May, even if it's just a read now, like

spk_0:   27:35
I might be washing or brush. People are fascinated by how you wash your brushes. What do you use? How long do you let him drive? There's a whole storey there,

spk_1:   27:42
something that you think it's just like the mundane.

spk_0:   27:45
Yeah, totally like I'm cleaning up my kids. People want to see mess. You know what I think is quite nice. Teo?

spk_1:   27:51
Yeah. They want to see it

spk_0:   27:52
destroyed. Kitt, a 1,000,000 brushes have being used, and you're okay. Great.

spk_1:   27:57
And how often do you paste a

spk_0:   27:59
time post one. Today, if I can. I know, bank, but I have something. The bank.

spk_1:   28:05
You, Teo, do you have You got one of those planets?

spk_0:   28:10
I don't plan. I'm terrible with planning, actually. Plan kind of. It's also my all of my camera, and I'll make sure that I get extra content content on a day. I think really key. Things are lighting, you know, You've got great led lights here. I've kind of evolved from a bring light on now, like a lycan led panel. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm content on the search for a good light. On the

spk_1:   28:28
right is everything

spk_0:   28:30
I think is keep

spk_1:   28:31
Yeah, that's one thing For many cases, when I see many case that I don't have a light. In that case, I'm thinking, how can you see? How

spk_0:   28:40
do you see when you're working in small like hotel rooms need to bring your own light. So at the moment, I'm using the makeup light, which is a really beautiful like diffused led gives a really clean look on camera. I still see it on my iPhone. Mostly so always be. I think toptips be present in the moment. No matter whether it you're working on a model or whether you're just doing your kid, people want to see, try and post one today on DH Hava Hava back catalogue of work that you can post on those quiet days

spk_1:   29:08
because it is being consistent, isn't it?

spk_0:   29:10
It's been consistent telling a storey getting your personality across. I think your page should flow like it's always like curated page. So on my page, sometimes it kind of flows in colour weighs a little bit like the moment I'm in the nude and black kind of moment. But

spk_1:   29:24
that purpose Yeah, okay.

spk_0:   29:27
And then I might have a lot of colour moment in, like Spring Summer might go through two more past ALS. It'll be quite seasonal. You know,

spk_1:   29:33
when people look at your feet, it's really kind of aesthetically hazing.

spk_0:   29:36
Statically piece is gonna be the seasonal, and you can kind of see where my head's up on. Also, you've just got to make friends Gonna make time for it. Make friends with it on DH. Don't worry. If you're not working on supermodels like you don't have to, like, go back to my storey with Clare, You know, she just hadn't have amazing eyes. It was a really, really cool girl. Tells that. OK, let's make some content. So you don't have to be working in a professional studio all the time. You know, anybody make content

spk_1:   29:59
also want to talk to you about your You have a makeup school? I do. E I

spk_0:   30:07
try my best. I mean, yeah, the makeup school was something I'd always dreamed of. And I think you know, when I when I was in Hong Kong for Mac, I would like education was a big part. Why did, like I was spending a lot of time in China, building up makeup, makeup team from nothing and really teaching that way on. So when I left, I kind of miss that teaching aspect. So we were lucky enough to find a beautiful mill space in Manchester, which is kind of like it has beautiful open windows really bright. There's a lot of space there, so Okay. This is perfect for a makeup school. Manchester's so industrial. You've got those huge spaces. So in the mike, it co hope we call it. There's my Kitco. There's a school, There's a shop, There's a studio. You should come in anybody more than welcome to visit, eh? So I started the makeup school with really in the mind of when I first started out. I wanted a place I could go and do makeup and then shoot him. I wanted contempt. I wanted to see my my pictures might might work in pictures really on. So as I started the school with a studio and I take beauty pictures as well, like a repeat of a bit of photography.

spk_1:   31:09
You actually take pictures? Yeah.

spk_0:   31:11
I started shooting all of my own stuff. Most of my own stuff, like, I love working with photographers, but I also like, you know, I looked behind the company.

spk_1:   31:18
Is if you've got that official I

spk_0:   31:20
Yeah, and shooting makeup from a makeup artist. Point of view is very different, actually on. So I started the school and we're so lucky. My biggest thing, my most successful thing thing is one to ones eso. It's me, a model on a makeup artist and sometimes my sis suggests Who's my right hand woman? Do

spk_1:   31:37
you have lots of assistance? Just

spk_0:   31:39
Jesse is like having my number one. We grow up. We started that Mac together. Yeah,

spk_1:   31:42
she's Army seeing. No way.

spk_0:   31:44
No, it's not like 17 18 years. Yeah, she's She's an incredibly talented artist as well on DH. Funny, good to be around on. So I mean, yeah, you need that person. But we're so looking me. We get people flying over from honestly, like a girl came over from Hong Kong for the weekend on the weekend to do two days, and then she flew back up. Had art is from Argentina, from Peru, New Zealand.

spk_1:   32:08
It doesn't surprise me to be honest. What your courses they like two days or

spk_0:   32:13
so with a want someone, you can either do a one day, a two day a three day sometimes is on. We really, really tailor it to the artist needs. So beforehand we have a conversation. They'll send like over a list of what they love, like what they're hoping to achieve. I'm super lucky to work with some great faces used boss models in Manchester. They're amazing on DH. I'm really Taylor. This the session to them. So we'll start with beautiful skin on. Then we'll shoot that just to say just to show how skin reads on camera.

spk_1:   32:41
That's what I am bringing out your creativity. He said exactly that. You're kind of like slogan is

spk_0:   32:48
bringing out your creativity. So I'm there to kind of help mentor and guide. But it's really about the artists. And, you know, a lot of people get stuck in a rock. Yeah, no, there might have been doing makeup for 10 15 years, and they're just bored and they don't know where to go. Yeah, I mean,

spk_1:   33:02
yeah, we kind of just, like, releases that kind off. The creative five

spk_0:   33:06
gives him another, and it may be that they start in the morning thinking they want to do, like, perfect skin and like a little little flick of liner. But by the end of the day, we've got the face paint out there doing something completely like haven't card in out of the box. And but they're loving it, You know what I mean? And then leave So energised. Yeah, totally.

spk_1:   33:24
That is amazing. So if anyone wants to go on your calls, we'll definitely put it in the show tonight. In what way

spk_0:   33:31
have websites that James More makeup school dot UK. So cheque it out on DH retail two minutes ago. You know what that is? Okay, so top tips. If you're starting out in the industry for the first time, a new kind of bewildered like you feel like you've got a massive Hilton time, I think. Know your strengths from early on. Like know what your signature style is on? I think it takes a while to get there like you've gotto like I said in the beginning, you've got to know what you what you like and what you don't like. Like what? Your signature Look on, DH. Also don't kind of try your best not to copy off, be caught up in that world. You know what I mean? Like, it's nice to be inspired by things, but there's so much more inspiration than looking at other people's work. Look up. I look at our history. I look interiors, You know, I got to being cured. Look at the paint swatches. For God's sake, just do

spk_1:   34:28
You know what? I I have lots of kind of admiration for lots of different now parties, but I don't try. I try not to follow too many because I don't want to be influenced. It

spk_0:   34:42
creeps into your head

spk_1:   34:43
creating, and I just wanna try and focus on just doing my own thing.

spk_0:   34:47
I love it. I think

spk_1:   34:48
that's all Not because I just don't want to follow them that I've gotta, like, keep on the track off doing my thing.

spk_0:   34:55
And you can get so even gets on before you know, if you look at other people's work too much subconsciously, you end up doing something similar. So yeah, so don't let the infiltrator, I think, just broaden your horizons. Sounds really cheesy to be saying, Oh, I'm inspired by nature itself. Actually. Look around you, you know, look around you up like I love interiors and I love our and that really inspires me because it gives you colour combinations and textures and all of that kind of thing, which is still trend related, but it's just a different medium. So I think you know, we know your skills be inspired by many different things. Dare to be a little bit different as well. Every now and again, I like to throw something completely weird out there on my instagram. Just

spk_1:   35:32
just relax. Just a

spk_0:   35:34
little litmus test, you know, it might not. Beauty makeup for me doesn't always have to be perfectly beautiful. Sometimes it could be weird in a bit, you know, a bit dark. And that's just something that kind of cute to me inspired. And also, I think, you know, I talked about just working my ass off in the beginning to get to where I wass and I think you just got to You got to take every opportunity.

spk_1:   35:53
And that includes doing lots of unpaid work.

spk_0:   35:55
Unpaid work is pretty much I still do unpaid work.

spk_1:   35:58
Yeah, doing unpaid work just to keep our portfolios fresh.

spk_0:   36:02
Totally to keep it fresh. You know what I think? Even testing, I don't think people even look a test anymore. That content creation, you know, you get together with a great team, you know, that's pretty much weight on shoots like that before, where you just you get your good team together on you just create, and so don't you know you've got a part time aside to create fun. It's fun.

spk_1:   36:23
Yeah, work is X. I think in

spk_0:   36:26
the dark times we all have them where we're like, Okay. I hate life. I hate my life. I hate makeup sometimes. Like, I want

spk_1:   36:32
to see another makeup again today. Yeah, yeah, quite

spk_0:   36:37
often. But in those times I like I do stay, take a step back and think. First of all, how lucky am I on also, if I'm really in the dark spot, I'll just remove myself from makeup altogether. I'll go like I don't

spk_1:   36:48
have a break.

spk_0:   36:49
And that's okay. Don't get obsessed. We love it. But it's okay to have some time out.

spk_1:   36:54
Do you have any exciting projects that you can tell us? You can't wait?

spk_0:   37:00
No, I Yeah. I mean, I've got lots of tricks of our suit for my kid is gonna be bigger for 2020. We're about to open next year in our first Harvey Nichols, which is gonna be amazing in Liverpool. In the beauty bizarre, we are going with doing the makeup show in New York in May, which is huge. The biggest shows up. I'm gonna be on stage there, and my kid coast coming along. I love it. But before I force myself, I used to hate public speaking, honestly, being just get over

spk_1:   37:31
it. Pretend you're talking to a friend.

spk_0:   37:33
I mean, just Yeah, So we've got a really busy here, so watch this space. There's more banks coming. There's amazing new brushes coming beautiful new synthetics that we're super proud off on. Just like I also had to innovate. And so you'll often find me and literally in my living room at home, stitching banks together and making things on my thinking. Oh, I made Yeah. Make that make the sample of

spk_1:   37:53
this on and off. Yeah,

spk_0:   37:55
I'm super hands on on dso What's this base for? Some really interesting little tricky things coming from my kicker. You're gonna like them. Oh, no. Thank you for my lovely manicure. My amazing my kick O'Neill. I'm gonna Teo Brock Lovett.

spk_1:   38:26
Thanks again, James, for making times feet. May I really appreciate it? You can follow James's beautiful work on Instagram at James Malloy. Makeup artists also his must have beauty bags on tools at my cocoa. You closer. Cheque out his makeup training policies at James Malloy Makeup school dot com. It's all in the show tonight. If you enjoy listening to the manicure table, created Conversations with Me Cherry snow, and you want to hear from more creative than subscribe to the podcast and follow us on instagram at the manicure table. If you have any feedback or you just want to get in touch, you can contact may either on instagram at Cherry Snow. Or you can email manicure at cherry snow dot com. I'd love to hear from you. Thanks for listening.